KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:55 am

The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion. Cubase's piano roll, for example, is really annoying compared to Orion's and I think I will always struggle with it. I've only switched to Cubase because Orion development stopped several years ago and it is becoming increasingly clunky.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:04 am

over the years, I have become increasingly chunky....

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:06 am

BONES wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:55 am The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion.

Yes...for your needs

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:33 am

Nobody ever really switches, we mainly accumulate.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pm

Youngins,

Back in the 70's I was a radio announcer at my local high school. We called ourselves DJ's. The main board was from the 1949. Later in the early 80's I was trained on a Studer A80 MK2 (2 inch analog 16 track recorder) under the motown masters. It was never as gratifying as recording on a four track cassette deck. Eventually I moved into the digital age as I was the first on the block to have a Roland VS1680

I used to produce alternative bands and hip hop artists.

When I finally transitioned to software and concentrated my energies on mixdown / mastering it was... Whatever the act was using. Sure the big studios were using PT but by then I was mixing and mastering smaller acts who were using Cakewalk and Acid (pre sony) and the people who paid me wanted all the source files. So that's what I used. When Sony bought Acid they destroyed it. From then on it was Samplitude / Magix and Cakewalk. Samplitude had the best mastering suite at the time.

I hated Abelton Live when it was first released. Still think it's crap. All the newer features were designed on helping you fix issues in the mix that live created.

A few years back I spent a few months looking for a daw. Tried Studio One. It's trial wouldn't allow for third party plugins. Tried and tried various other hosts.... The winner was mixcraft. Tonnes of plugins, smart easy to use UI. Moderately priced. Never crashed, never froze

Tried Bitwig for MPE.
I like mpe, don't love it. But armed with a linnstrument I really wanted to explore MPE. Bitwig seemed like the natural choice. The thing I hate about bitwig is it tries to contain everything in one window. I've been using two and three monitors for decades now. Simply getting a bigger monitor doesn't cut it for me. I can jury rig Mixcraft for mpe. It's work but it's still a better solution.

With regards to projects. When it's done it's done. Set a completion date you'll be finishing more projects that way. Be happy that you finished it go back and listen to the master if you want to reminisce or share.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:18 pm

tapper mike wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pmThe thing I hate about bitwig is it tries to contain everything in one window. I've been using two and three monitors for decades now. Simply getting a bigger monitor doesn't cut it for me.

You can use multiple displays with Bitwig. Right click an empty space of the title bar. There you can choose up to triple displays with arranger in one, mixer on another and the editor on yet another

Trancit · Post by **Trancit** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:31 pm

sQeetz wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:18 pm You can use multiple displays with Bitwig. Right click an empty space of the title bar. There you can choose up to triple displays with arranger in one, mixer on another and the editor on yet another

I never dived deeper into this in Bitwig but my first impression was that you can only use kind of presets Bitwig delivers...
You cannot really define yourself what goes onto what monitor... is that correct???

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:38 pm

Trancit wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:31 pmI never dived deeper into this in Bitwig but my first impression was that you can only use kind of presets Bitwig delivers...
You cannot really define yourself what goes onto what monitor... is that correct???

That's correct. There's probably some config file one could edit to customize one of the templates (I suspect it's in the \resources\themes\default.theme file) but it's not documented and very tedious to do.
For dual monitors you have 4 different presets, though...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:22 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:06 am
BONES wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:55 am The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion.
Yes...for your needs

Gee, do you think maybe that's why I said it was my problem? Idiot!

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:45 am

BONES wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:13 am Hardly, I just happen to use my brain a little more than some of you.

Honestly I think you're painfully egotistical with absolutely no reason to be, but you be you.

What you've provided does nothing to bolster your case because I wasn't criticising what you do, just your stupid justification for it. You don't know why Autechre use every DAW under the sun so they don't back you up at all. And Liam Howlett has been using Reason pretty much since it first came out, so it's hardly surprising he's made an album with it, although he used to use it to get ideas down, before moving it over to Pro-Tools to flesh it out and polish it up.

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. There's an interview with Liam right as Always Outnumbered came out, he talks about being overwhelmed with his setup and getting Reason and a laptop. https://www.soundonsound.com/people/the-prodigy His reasons are exactly what I described. Reason had been out for years by then.

Autechre, same thing, article explains their reasons, not unlike why I mix it up a bit. https://www.soundonsound.com/people/autechre

You really just like to argue, and it's getting pathetic lately, you're not even basing it on facts, just your feelings.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:56 am

BONES wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:22 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:06 am
BONES wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:55 am The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion.
Yes...for your needs
Gee, do you think maybe that's why I said it was my problem? Idiot!

I would ban you for this sort of thing. You're calling someone directly an idiot here, not saying what they said was idiotic.

MadDogE134 · Post by **MadDogE134** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:14 am

simple... i closed one and opened another lol

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:56 am

BONES wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:22 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:06 am
BONES wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:55 am The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion.
Yes...for your needs
Gee, do you think maybe that's why I said it was my problem? Idiot!

Just because you identified it as a problem for you, doesn’t mean you aren’t also making an objective claim about the product.

How you phrased it could easily be interpreted as “Nothing will ever be as good as Orion, and that’s a problem for me”.

But my apologies. I was confusing you with another ‘BONES’ who often offers his subjective opinion as though it were objective, and incontrovertible, fact. An easy mistake for an idiot such as myself

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:07 am

No, the way I phrased it was to say that I had a problem - me, singular - not "there is a problem" or "the problem is" or anything else. It was "the problem I have" and that can only be interpreted one way. You saw what you wanted to see. It's what you all do, all the freakin' time. Take our good friend below, he reads an article until he gets to the bit that confirms his distorted view of reality and fails completely to get the whole story, which is something else entirely. He did well to find the article, though. I'd read it when it came out and had no hope of remembering where it came from.

machinesworking wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:45 amYeah, you don't know what you're talking about. There's an interview with Liam right as Always Outnumbered came out, he talks about being overwhelmed with his setup and getting Reason and a laptop. https://www.soundonsound.com/people/the-prodigy His reasons are exactly what I described. Reason had been out for years by then.

Or maybe, just maybe, we read the same article but I bothered to read to the end, where you just read the bits that made you feel good about your sad, little life? Because eventually it says "the sounds were transferred into Pro Tools so that vocals and overdubs could be added. 'Reason is purely for sequencing,' Liam says. 'It has its uses but moving to Pro Tools allowed us to up a gear and get the tracks sounding pretty good.'" He even hired a studio to do the work. you know, like we all do. And he's talking about preliminary work on an album that came out in 2004, so maybe he was using Reason in 2003, just three years after it came out and very early in it's evolution.

Autechre, same thing, article explains their reasons, not unlike why I mix it up a bit. https://www.soundonsound.com/people/autechre

Just skimmed through it and didn't really see anything that I'd call an explanation of anything other than why I hate Autechre (but I already figured most of it out listening to a couple of tracks).

You really just like to argue, and it's getting pathetic lately, you're not even basing it on facts, just your feelings.

No, quite the opposite - I mostly deal in facts and see little or no benefit in talking about opinions, beyond stating them. That's what the rest of you do, you mostly just fail to realise it because you can't tell one from the other.

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:27 am

BONES wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:07 am No, the way I phrased it was to say that I had a problem - me, singular - not "there is a problem" or "the problem is" or anything else. It was "the problem I have"

That YOU have/had a problem with the situation was always clear. The part that is in contention is whether you were also claiming that Orion's superiority was an objective fact.
Now you've explained your intention, it's clear. But it wasn't clear from your original statement, hence my original reply to clarify.

BONES wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:07 amand that can only be interpreted one way.

Your original statement:

"The problem I have is that nothing will ever be as good as Orion."

can be also interpreted as "Nothing is as good as Orion! That's a a problem for me, seeing as it's no longer being developed"

I know it can be interpreted that way, because that's how I interpreted it.

But if you can demonstrate that my interpretation was not possible, I'd be interested

BONES wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:07 amYou saw what you wanted to see. It's what you all do, all the freakin' time.

Opinion as fact, once again? Quelle Surprise! And "It's what you all do, all the freakin' time". Yes...It's what WE do...All of us...Always

Of course, we all have our biases. And while you've got enough 'form' for my interpretation to have been correct, I shouldn't have presumed that to be the case. Ideally, I would've asked for your clarification rather than asserted my own, but that would have been to deny a middle-aged man (You're in your sixties, right?) his right to throw a toddler's tantrum. Tough call

The truth is I've better ways to spend my energy than putting words in your 'mouth', or trying to skew your intent/meaning. I can't rule out that your general behaviour here would have made my interpretation a pretty safe bet, but that's not what informed it.

How did you manage to switch DAWs?