Another DAW with piano roll as great as FL Studio?

[Passing Bye]

You can draw in something that you wouldn't think of playing and would come out pretty good.

You can actually play something you couldn't even reach that easily drawing, happy accident are faster and more to expect playing keyboard than doing tedious drawing, but whatever floats your boats.

[EnGee]

and it's more fun

[tooneba]

You can draw in something that you wouldn't think of playing and would come out pretty good.

You can actually play something you couldn't even reach that easily drawing, happy accident are faster and more to expect playing keyboard than doing tedious drawing, but whatever floats your boats.

I understand you are despising IDM ppl.

[Trancit]

nevermind...

I am out... I don´t even understand what you are writing here...

me?
i was just giving "person who uses mouss to make music" a name.
things gotta have names, thats how we know what things are

i made no value judgement in mouseicians, the results are what matters in such endeavours i guess

(not averse to mousing myself either, using keys/pads input too. why limit oneself if one doesnt need to?)

No, I wasn´t refering to you...
I was originally refering to all people trying to state here the only valid way would be to play everything in live and this would be the only way to be a musician...

But somehow things got imho out of hands here and I am not even sure to understand correctly what people write... that why I wrote the part you quoted from me...

[EnGee]

Come on! Don't exaggerate! Who said the only valid way is to play live?! For me, I just suggested to learn something that make the OP less dependent on the Piano Roll, so he/she can free him/herself from the super duper features in FLS Piano Roll!

But if "learning" is such a burden, you are free to ignore me! Go use just one finger typing and clicking! Who cares!

[JGM4Ever]

What's so smooth about FL's piano roll is not just the hotkeys/mouse clicks, but how it all comes together.

Off the top, this is what stands out on their piano roll personally:
1. Smart logistic choices such as single click add, right click delete, etc. makes editing notes very fluid. It simply doesn't "feel" clunky at all.
2. Creative tools such as strum, randomization, arpeggiator, note flip, flam, etc.
3. Compositional assistance: scale highlighting (which can also import custom scales), ghost notes, etc.
4. It's integration with the channel rack/step sequencer is terrific. Drag in a sample/instrument and start working.
5. MIDI editing/listening tools: cut, paint, mute, hover over playback, etc.
6. Color notes (especially combined with BRSO articulate) make key switches completely easy to do when using vsts like Kontakt.
7. Note functions such as slide/portamento/legato built onto the piano roll.
8. MIDI events editor at the bottom window to control panning, velocity, fine pitch/pitch bending, etc. All at very fine points and curves.
9. Time signatures per pattern and time signatures per bar makes creating and arranging polymeter phrases very easy.
10. Of course the hotkeys for things like legato, group notes, transpose, etc.

This combines into an experience thats great not only for cleaning up played-in MIDI notes, but generating entire tracks from scratch using nothing except the piano roll (and optionally the step sequencer), which many modern producers do. I mean, if you know how a piano melody/arrangement sounds, it's very easy to mimic it on FL's piano roll. You let your ears guide you when you make music in the piano roll, just like you would on any other instrument.

On top of it being fully capably in more elaborate setups, if I'm going to be strictly working with MIDI and have nothing but a laptop, FL is an easy choice because of how good that piano roll and the "drag instrument in and place notes" workflow is. The mousepads on a Macbook and FL are a great combination for producing/composing on the go or just relaxing on the couch for example.

[Trancit]

Come on! Don't exaggerate! Who said the only valid way is to play live?! For me, I just suggested to learn something that make the OP less dependent on the Piano Roll, so he/she can free him/herself from the super duper features in FLS Piano Roll!

But if "learning" is such a burden, you are free to ignore me! Go use just one finger typing and clicking! Who cares!

EDIT...: nevermind... this discussion leads into nothing...

[Passing Bye]

Of course it doesn't, instead of you explaining jonljacobi why you think FL piano roll have more to offer than he taught, you opened a whole other can of worms, actually all was fine, until your last sentence that I quoted and which I think doesn't reflect reality, but you tried to use as an argument, unnecessary really.

I wouldn't limit myself to only one way of doing things, being that playing or editing with mouse, I do both, find sticking to only one way too crippling, there's obvious perks of both and that's where I stand on that matter, admire people who only can use one to their satisfactory, I couldn't, period.

Second, EnGee is absolutely on the ball, if OP crippled himself that he's now dependent on some piano roll features to compose music, than maybe it's time to actually change things up, I agree, plenty of those features aren't so important when you combine different note inputting methods, let alone picking a whole blown DAW because of those, but already said my peace on that, OP can do whatever he wants.

[Trancit]

Bollocks...

It´s just general suspicion that somebody, who wants to keep a certain workflow he loves, lacks of other knowledge...

You all know anything about him and what he´s capable of and it´s 100% respectless to tell him:

"Dude... it´s nonsense what you want... we tell you the right way... You use a PR editor so it´s clear that you need to train your playing skills and music theory..."

He asked a simple question which was 100% answered very quickly before you guys started to tell other people what should be right or wrong... nothing but prejudice...
And I am very sure this all wouldn´t have happened if he would have asked something about the PR editor of Cubase/Logic or Studio One...
But this was for you another noob... using a toy as a DAW and not willing to understand that only your way is the right one!!!

[Passing Bye]

Think what you want, everything stands nonetheless, I don't know why are you so passionate about this mater at all, calm down and actually read what is written and who is responding and about what, instead of putting us all in your imaginary stereotype. Have a great one!

[Trancit]

I know it´s tough when you run out of arguments...

[Passing Bye]

I know it´s tough when you run out of arguments...

You would know, you are the one running away from actual discussion all the time and than coming back with stuff like this, I seriously didn't had debate with you, you are like kid who runs away, than returns to shout some stuff, than runs away again, I expressed my opinion more than one time and that's where I stand, on other hand, I don't even care what are your motives at this point, you seem so emotionally involved and in your own prejudice, having any sort of rational discussion with you is pointless, so have a great one fighting your imaginary battle.

[tooneba]

your imaginary stereotype. Have a great one!

So what is this?

happy accident are faster and more to expect playing keyboard than doing tedious drawing,

Many IDM Artists are literally putting data on pianoroll by not playing keyboard but utilizing other method, such as note generator, drawing, editing, AI, randomizer, sequencer, etc. They are also pursuing happy accident as well as you.

This is your imaginary stereotype too. If you want someone to follow the protocol then you have to. It works both ways.

[Passing Bye]

I stand by that, you can stumble much faster on more happy accidents if you play keyboard opposed to entering values with mouse in piano roll, I do music by recording and entering the note values, at some point I used only laptop and only entered values with pencil, both ways have perks, I used chord, arp and whatever generators too, but I wouldn't rely on anything religiously there, use whatever works for you, EDM, IDM or whatever, if you can follow only one way religiously, than seriously I admire you, I couldn't, I said this so many times in this thread, go battle your preferred way with someone else.

[andypryce]

You can draw in something that you wouldn't think of playing and would come out pretty good.

You can actually play something you couldn't even reach that easily drawing, happy accident are faster and more to expect playing keyboard than doing tedious drawing, but whatever floats your boats.

Yes that is why I said I use both methods. I am not favoring one way to the other. I almost always perform and record and then sometimes play around in PR but sometimes I just draw notes. For example I just draw a house bass line with 3 chords and copy paste that goes 128 bars. There is nothing sophisticated about playing it live. It is just faster to draw in and copy paste. Likewise for me there is no point trying to create a complex piano performance by drawing the notes in. I can just play it faster.
For me putting in notes to PR is no different than writing them on paper or Sibelius.