New Pigments 2 Thread (On Topic Discussion Only, Please)
- GRRRRRRR!
- Topic Starter
- 15939 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
Yeah, that's probably why I have pretty much stopped even trying Pigments in new material I'm working on - it's way more synth than I usually need and, unlike Thorn or DUNE, it's not something I feel I can keep working at until it does what I'm after. It seems to either work or not. It's a shame because I like a lot of the ideas they have put into it. Ultimately, it seems more to be slightly lacking in sound, rather than features.
My needs tend to be very, very simple - any host will do, as long as it has the basics covered and is easy to work with. Beyond that, I'd rather have a dozen simple synths than a couple of complex ones. My ideal synth set would be something like Thorn, ArcSyn (if I can't have Orion and Wasp), Union, Odyssey, bx_oberhausen and Mono/Fury. Of course, I'd also needs drums, for which Ujam's BM-Vice and BM-Eden would do nicely - Vice for rock drums and Eden for dancier stuff.
My needs tend to be very, very simple - any host will do, as long as it has the basics covered and is easy to work with. Beyond that, I'd rather have a dozen simple synths than a couple of complex ones. My ideal synth set would be something like Thorn, ArcSyn (if I can't have Orion and Wasp), Union, Odyssey, bx_oberhausen and Mono/Fury. Of course, I'd also needs drums, for which Ujam's BM-Vice and BM-Eden would do nicely - Vice for rock drums and Eden for dancier stuff.
Last edited by BONES on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRist
- 205 posts since 31 Oct, 2015
Not sure if it’s on Ableton side since Repro and Reason don’t exhibit any latency when switching presets.
- KVRian
- 709 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan
I haven't had this issue with Pigments, but I run it inside Komplete Kontrol, which uses the VST2 version. However, I have had the issue where the UI freezes when changing presets with several other synths. Some of the Roland Cloud ones are really bad. I'm using Ableton Live 10.1.17 on a late 2015 iMac (Catalina 10.15.6, but the problem has been happening since Mojave…10.14.4 or so). I can almost always avoid this problem by using the VST2 version, but on the Mac, Roland Cloud plugins only support AU and VST3 (for some reason they make VST2s Windows, but not for Mac).
Some of them are fine, but a few of them (such as the System-8, Jupiter-8, JV-1080, D-50) freeze for 3–5 seconds every time I change presets. This occurs with both the AU and VST3 versions, but the behavior is a bit different. The AU version will update the UI to show the settings for the patch I just loaded, and then it freezes. The VST version freezes immediately, and the UI doesn't update until it unfreezes. In both cases, the new preset becomes playable within a second or two (while it's still frozen); it's just the UI that's stuck.
The same AU plugins don't have this issue in Logic Pro (10.5). Maybe AU and VST3 support a newer version of OpenGL (or even Metal?), and some plugins use functionality in those newer graphics APIs that clash with the way Ableton Live handles its own UI update cycle. I don't know. I've mentioned it to a bunch of people and a lot of them don't have the issue, so it seems likely to also be GPU-specific.
My apologies if this is off topic, but this has been driving me nuts for about a year and I haven't been able to find many other people with the same issue. We can follow up on this in PM or another thread.
Stormchild
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- KVRian
- 606 posts since 28 Oct, 2010 from Mexico
I also had a couple of UI bugs with the VST version in Windows when trying to run it in a 4K monitor.
For some reason the Pigments window wasn't "aware" when it was running in hiDPI mode (no scaling, 1:1 pixels) and it just cropped the UI. Changing the UI size did change the rendering size and the window size, but it kept cropping the UI and it kept rendering everything blurry just at a bigger size.
See this image:
Another issue I had is that it looked like the UI didn't render at 60fps, but more like 30fps. This was quite annoying considering the UI has plenty of animations.
Support didn't offer any solution, communication wasn't great either as they are in France and stop working at 2pm or so (I'm on the other side of the Atlantic). I ended up refunding the product. First and last Arturia product for me.
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- KVRist
- 205 posts since 31 Oct, 2015
Arturia has international support... However the problem is complex : vst3, daw, os... I’ve got a problem with shirtcut keys not working in Windows with Live with a u-he synth. Same vst3 synth on Mac, it is ok. Long live vst2 ?!
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WatchTheGuitar WatchTheGuitar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=440193
- KVRAF
- 12936 posts since 30 Apr, 2019
I've got a 4K BenQ I run in 1:1 2160P on Windows 10 and I haven't seen this issue either in plugins or standalone. Is this in a specific DAW? Do you get it in standalone too?
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- KVRian
- 606 posts since 28 Oct, 2010 from Mexico
I run my 4K monitors with scaling on Windows which AFAIK is the most common setting for hiDPI displays. Unless of course you're using a TV or a huge monitor... or you have the eyes of a hawk.WatchTheGuitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:59 pmI've got a 4K BenQ I run in 1:1 2160P on Windows 10 and I haven't seen this issue either in plugins or standalone. Is this in a specific DAW? Do you get it in standalone too?
I don't own Pigments any more but I've looked at the emails I exchanged with Arturia's support and yeah the issue was a combination of Pigments and Windows scaling other than 100%. Disabling scaling fixed the cropping issue but it's just not a solution with 27'' and 24'' 4K monitors.
I don't remember if the issue also happened in the stand alone version.
JUCE (the framework used by Arturia and many other companies) implemented a fix for hiDPI displays in January 2020 although I don't know if it was related to this issue:
https://juce.com/discover/stories/juce-5-4
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WatchTheGuitar WatchTheGuitar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=440193
- KVRAF
- 12936 posts since 30 Apr, 2019
But, you can scale up to 200% in Pigments which nearly fills my 32” 4K monitor at 1:1. I don’t have the eyes of a hawk FWIW, quite the opposite, but my music PC is also my remote home working PC and my monitors are different resolutions and scaling screws up my dual screen Citrix sessions and most applications offer some internal scaling anyway these days.pierb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:41 pmI run my 4K monitors with scaling on Windows which AFAIK is the most common setting for hiDPI displays. Unless of course you're using a TV or a huge monitor... or you have the eyes of a hawk.WatchTheGuitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:59 pmI've got a 4K BenQ I run in 1:1 2160P on Windows 10 and I haven't seen this issue either in plugins or standalone. Is this in a specific DAW? Do you get it in standalone too?
I don't own Pigments any more but I've looked at the emails I exchanged with Arturia's support and yeah the issue was a combination of Pigments and Windows scaling other than 100%. Disabling scaling fixed the cropping issue but it's just not a solution with 27'' and 24'' 4K monitors.
I don't remember if the issue also happened in the stand alone version.
JUCE (the framework used by Arturia and many other companies) implemented a fix for hiDPI displays in January 2020 although I don't know if it was related to this issue:
https://juce.com/discover/stories/juce-5-4
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- KVRian
- 606 posts since 28 Oct, 2010 from Mexico
Sure, but then everything else is super small. Ableton can be scaled independently, but the rest of the apps, Windows dialogs, etc, will respect the general Windows scaling setting. And I'm sure there are plugins that do not resize or that cannot be resized up to 200% or higher.WatchTheGuitar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:14 pm But, you can scale up to 200% in Pigments which nearly fills my 32” 4K monitor at 1:1. I don’t have the eyes of a hawk FWIW, quite the opposite, but my music PC is also my remote home working PC and my monitors are different resolutions and scaling screws up my dual screen Citrix sessions and most applications offer some internal scaling anyway these days.
It's incredible that in the Windows world we're still having these issues with hiDPI displays after having been using them in Macs, phones, and tablets for most of the last decade. As a software dev myself I mostly blame plugin developers. U-He, Fabfilter, Ableton, and many others developers (even small ones like TAL) have no problem with resizable UIs and hiDPI displays.
- KVRist
- 282 posts since 21 Jul, 2020
Looks like Pigments just updated, but it seems to have broken the VST2 version of my plugin. Anybody else having this issue? My DAW no longer finds the VST2 even though its still in the same folder it always was
- KVRAF
- 2254 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union
I did install update yesterday (212.3854), no issues here. VST2 StudioOne4 Win10 64bit
One moment - do you use built-in auto updater in Arturia manager or download\use standard Pigments installer ?
- KVRist
- 282 posts since 21 Jul, 2020
I used the built-in updater. I just let it do its thing, but when I clicked update I didn't realize I had my DAW open. It complained at me, so I closed it and clicked retry. Perhaps that screwed something up?