Drum Loop Construction

[Breakpete]

I also agree with BunnyBoy. The sounds you use are VERY important. Make sure you have sounds that fit the genre of music you are making, and if you don't, find a creative way to make them fit (e.g. use effects).

Also, some slight velocity variations can do much for realism. For dance stuff, try adding some shuffle (e.g. around 50%) to the hihats (and other sounds too!) to get that classic house-funk type sound.

Try programming a very basic loop fitting the genre you want, using perhaps only a kick, snare and closed hithat. Then experiment by putting a bit of percussion or fx sounds here and there, just to see how it sounds. Once you are happy, add another sound.

Drum programming is so much fun once you get the hang of it.

[Sascha Franck]

Seriously, while I totally agree that sounds are important when it comes to mixing, a properly programmed drum part should work fine even using mediocre sounds.
Of course it's more fun in case you got nice sounds straight from the start, but I don't think it's a must.

[NAD]

You have to listen to music actively. Try tuning out everything but the drums and then dissect the beat in your head, try to visualize it on a grid. Do this every time you listen to music. Then try to replicate what you hear with your software. This is what I call 'critical' or 'active' listening. It might take some time to develop, though, so be patient. And you might find your enjoyment of music diminishes somewhat. But it will definitely help your composition skills.

[vbfischer]

Wow.. Thanks for all the replies. Too much to respond to individually.

re: Sounds. Thanks for the tips on this. I have been experimenting the last few days, and I've found that I end up spending a lot of time trying to get the sound right. Maybe its too many choices. I own the DR-008, Fruity Loops, as well as a sampler (Kontakt). Reaktor 4 also has some good modules (but seems to be crashing a lot lately). Maybe I need to take Sascha's recommendation and worry less about the sound at the start, especially since this appears to be a bottle neck for me. I'm thinking I need to build a couple of kits that work for me, and limit myself to those (at least at startup, or untill I get better at this).

As for sounding "industrial", its not really a style that can easily be defined. It is bandied about to describe many different styles. I would guess to be more specific, I listen to more EBM type stuff, such as Wumpscut, FLA, F242, etc.

PawPaw: I checked out that site, and it looks like a great resource. I just have to figure out how to interpret it all...

Once my iPod is finally delivered, I'll be listening to my music more actively as several have suggested. I need the iPod, so I can do it at work (instead of actual work)

My computer at work grinds to a halt if I play mp3s, so I'm looking forward to getting the iPod. At home, I get only a few hours to work on this stuff....

Thanks for everyone's suggestions and tips.

[deggy]

i have to say. just left my ebm band. (touring sucks ass) Playing synth in an ebm band also sucks. I don't want be forced to play rediculously simple keyboard parts that emulate a poorly programmed sequencer.

(oh and for the record, VNV's live show is just glorified kareoke. The same goes for most ebm acts. "Live" ebm = a bunch of two-finger keyboard noodlers, terrible singers that don't mind singing in english so they can sell stuff in America, and most important of all, a DAT/.WAV file with all of the music.)

At least Ashley Simpson's band is filled with people who actually know how to play.

please don't take this too seriously. i don't mean to offend the ebm fans. i'm just bitter about money.

[vbfischer]

None taken Deggy. I just like playing the music I enjoy listening to, don't care much about live acts. Between being old and having kids, I don't go to many shows anymore (and haven't performed Live in almost 15 years. Was a keyboardist in a heavy metal band... Talk about almost useless....)

[snooky]

And dont worry about using premade loops in this context. No one will recognise them once you've gone to work.

I constantly, constantly, CONSTANTLY, hear drum loops from sample CDs or other loop librarys that I recognice...very boring...programming loops yourself from existent material or make a completly new groove from synthesis is much more fresh imo.

[11011011]

Gotta agree with Mucho here... two things I can spot a mile away are loops and clip-art. Always looks cheesy. On the plus side, the general public isn't as discerning, and I've heard plenty of evidence which suggests you can sneak it by.

[quincy]

Gotta agree with Mucho here... two things I can spot a mile away are loops and clip-art. Always looks cheesy. On the plus side, the general public isn't as discerning, and I've heard plenty of evidence which suggests you can sneak it by.

A good way around these tired loop cliches is to copy the rhythm but with your own single hits.

Also you can then play with a mix between the original and your interpretation of the loop, you'll get a punchier sound i reckon.

I think that these days there are so many ways to use a loop or process it, it need never sound like the original.

[vbfischer]

I generally don't like to use loops, as (again, generally) I have problems finding one's with the beats I hear in my head. What I am going to try doing is loading loops, and trying to emulate them, to learn how to construct drum parts.

[redhanded97]

A good way around these tired loop cliches is to copy the rhythm but with your own single hits.

Also you can then play with a mix between the original and your interpretation of the loop, you'll get a punchier sound i reckon.

Most sequencers nowadays will allow you to create a groove template from a loop or midi clip. This can then be used to do groove quantization on another loop or midi clip later. In Sonar 4.0 they are called Groove Patterns.

Make your loop, experiment with Groove Quantization and see what comes out...

[Lunch Money]

What the hell is ebm?

[Bunnyboy]

What the hell is ebm?

Electronic Body Music

Was industrial you could dance to.

Like Front 242, Skinny Puppy would probably be retrospectively called EBM.

Nowadays, it sounds like goths have just discovered techno music.
Imagine people singing in mittle europe accents over a late 80s, early 90s techno/trance beat.

[Barbed Wire Kiss]

What the hell is ebm?

Electronic Body Music (Doh! Too slow )

[Bunnyboy]

I'm with the folks who say that the use of premade drum loops is the wrong thing.

For me rolling your own is the only way, as rhythm is very important to me.

sampling and cutting up loops is another thing, but that is an art and creating another rhythm track out of a pre-existing one is a lot of fun