I know what preamps do, but when would you use them?

[TheMusicManisI]

Alright, I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this in, or if the question wasn't phrased correctly, I am new here. I love making music, one thing I have actually never looked out for until today, are preamps. I understand what they do, they take a mic level signal and make it a line level signal. Although, when in my setup would they appear, where would it fall in the system of components? Would my guitar go straight into the Preamp, or somewhere else, Would the out of the Preamp go to the amp or Sound Board? Finally, do they actually improve sound quality?

I am so sorry if this was too many questions, just answer as many as you can, if I said something wrong please let me know. Like I just said, I signed into this forum about 15 minutes ago, still learning the ropes tbh.

(I am talking about hardware, tbh I didnt even know there were preamps that you would use in a DAW)

[ariston]

Are you talking about software or hardware? If you're recording anything with a mic, you need a preamp. If you're completely in the box, then a preamp is not essential.

A preamp does what you say, and hopefully with a minimum of noise. Aside from boosting the signal, it can be overdriven to (again, hopefully) add some pleasant saturation to the sound. Some people also swear by the subtle coloration vintage preamps impart to the sound.

The typical setup is preamp - amp, but in the DAW world, why limit yourself like that? Experiment.

In my default mixing template in Reaper, I've got a preamp on every channel.

[schpaeckulum]

If you're talking about hardware, you need to learn your equipment and when/how to use it correctly. In software, you could do whatever you want. Put a preamp on the master channel.

[TheMusicManisI]

Are you talking about software or hardware? If you're recording anything with a mic, you need a preamp. If you're completely in the box, then a preamp is not essential.

Most of the things I do are with hardware, right now I am talking about hardware preamps. My mixer has mic preamps, should I get another preamp to bypass the one in the mixer? Would that make the sound better? I use reaper as well, when you say you have a preamp on every channel do you mean you have a vst preamp or something like that, I didnt know that was possible? Would the best possible option be to plug the preamp into the amp, and either mic the amp up or use an out on the amp to go into the mixer?

[TheMusicManisI]

If you're talking about hardware, you need to learn your equipment and when/how to use it correctly. In software, you could do whatever you want. Put a preamp on the master channel.

I can't buy a preamp and not be able to understand it, I also wanted to know if it was even worth it to have one.

[BONES]

No, you don't need to go and buy a pre-amp, unless you are having problems making something loud enough. You need mic pre-amps because a microphone's output isn't as loud as synth's. If you need one for a guitar, the mic one will probably do the job.

[ariston]

Are you talking about software or hardware? If you're recording anything with a mic, you need a preamp. If you're completely in the box, then a preamp is not essential.

Most of the things I do are with hardware, right now I am talking about hardware preamps. My mixer has mic preamps, should I get another preamp to bypass the one in the mixer? Would that make the sound better? I use reaper as well, when you say you have a preamp on every channel do you mean you have a vst preamp or something like that, I didnt know that was possible?

Ah, okay. Well, if your mixer preamp does its job well, you definitely don't need another one. You can shell out a lot of money for a preamp, but then you're quickly entering the realm of diminishing returns. Some high end aficionados swear by their 1000$ preamps, but of course they need to rationalize spending so much money.

Yeah, I was talking about plugins. There are some nice ones out there right now, and they can add just the right amount of grit and girth to some sounds.

[schpaeckulum]

In short, you need this:
https://vintageking.com/neve-1073-mic-pre

[andymcbain]

Are you talking about software or hardware? If you're recording anything with a mic, you need a preamp. If you're completely in the box, then a preamp is not essential.

Most of the things I do are with hardware, right now I am talking about hardware preamps. My mixer has mic preamps, should I get another preamp to bypass the one in the mixer? Would that make the sound better? I use reaper as well, when you say you have a preamp on every channel do you mean you have a vst preamp or something like that, I didnt know that was possible? Would the best possible option be to plug the preamp into the amp, and either mic the amp up or use an out on the amp to go into the mixer?

Before we can make any recommendations you need to let us know the make and model of the mixer you use - as the quality of the pre-amps in a mixer will vary. That said though, I suspect they will do the job unless you're getting into more specialist low sensitivity mic territory, or you want to overdrive the pre-amps for some tonal colour. Mic selection, mic placement and the room you record in will have more impact on the end result.

The idea of a pre-amp plugin seems to be a bit misleading for some newcomers - they're saturation plugins, basically

[elxsound]

I was just going to ask for the make and model of it too...

I was actually thinking of the same thing after looking at the Epoch Pre by Catlinbread. This is modeled after two different released versions of the pre-amp of the Echoplex Ep-3 (first 400 and every release after).

The Epoch-Pre was intended to be placed last in the chain of effects (mostly because since it was a delay unit, this was simply how it was used in the 70s), before it is recorded, but you can place it wherever you want really. It'll roll off some higher frequencies so it has a "warming" effect when placed after any saturators, distortion and/or fuzz boxes.

Now, for beyond the Epoch-Pre from what I'm seeing, most place the Pre-amp first in the chain to assist with boosting the signal (and there's transparent boosters too, but that's different). So your guitar would record directly in the Pre-amp, then connect to whatever effect next or record direct to the computer next.

As for sound quality... aside from volume boost, as many have already written, saturation (added harmonics, clipping and often eq cuts and boosts) are are what people are after. In the box, its used to assist at the mixing/mastering stages, in an effect chain for guitar its used for assisting with the sound and in either capacity (mixing/pedal effect chain) the saturation can range from mild to overdriven depending on make/model.

I'm only adding all the above, because knowing the model of the pre-amp will help.

[TheMusicManisI]

In short, you need this:
https://vintageking.com/neve-1073-mic-pre

thank you very much, but I can't afford something like that atm. Especially considering I am not even sure if I need this, and right now I am leaning towards just getting 1 for my guitar, I can't drop ~$1,000. Once again, thank you for helping.

[TheMusicManisI]

Are you talking about software or hardware? If you're recording anything with a mic, you need a preamp. If you're completely in the box, then a preamp is not essential.

Most of the things I do are with hardware, right now I am talking about hardware preamps. My mixer has mic preamps, should I get another preamp to bypass the one in the mixer? Would that make the sound better? I use reaper as well, when you say you have a preamp on every channel do you mean you have a vst preamp or something like that, I didnt know that was possible? Would the best possible option be to plug the preamp into the amp, and either mic the amp up or use an out on the amp to go into the mixer?

Before we can make any recommendations you need to let us know the make and model of the mixer you use - as the quality of the pre-amps in a mixer will vary. That said though, I suspect they will do the job unless you're getting into more specialist low sensitivity mic territory, or you want to overdrive the pre-amps for some tonal colour. Mic selection, mic placement and the room you record in will have more impact on the end result.

The idea of a pre-amp plugin seems to be a bit misleading for some newcomers - they're saturation plugins, basically

Alright, the mixer I am using is an "Alto Professional Live". I don't personally know how to tell if it has good mix preamps, so you can tell me that. If a beginner like me is interested in this mixer, than keep in mind it is not multitrack so you can't separate channels, so you can't use it too record with more than one person because you have to record everything separately. That is fine for me because I am pretty much ALWAYS a solo runner, because I have trouble concentrating at multiple things at once, flaw of mine.

Anyway that got off track. As far as my personal experience, when I use my acoustic guitar (the brand is "Luna" I don't remember the guitar's name) The signal is very good, sometimes where I have to turn it down. My Epiphone Les Paul is pretty quiet, you can here it, but not much. I have been able to get buy with my Boss GT-1 multi effects unit, which is literally a blessing in disguise, has a preamp. my actual mic, has a good signal as well.

I had the same thoughts as well when he said vst preamps

[jamcat]

Get a USB-powered audio interface. Most come with XLR mic/hi-Z instrument inputs.
Here are a bunch that are cheap but good (or just VERY cheap in the case of Behringer).

https://www.presonus.com/products/AudioBox-USB-96
https://focusrite.com/en/usb-audio-inte ... arlett-2i2
https://www.roland.com/us/products/rubix22/
https://mackie.com/products/onyx-usb-interfaces-1
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AVV
https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/a ... 2mkii.html

[BertKoor]

Alright, the mixer I am using is an "Alto Professional Live".

Personally never heard of them before, but they come from a good stable:
https://inmusicbrands.com

I don't personally know how to tell if it has good mix preamps, so you can tell me that.

For that we have technical specifications I quoted from a review in SoundOnSound:

The mic amps use what Alto call their DNA circuitry, and these are specified as having a flat response from 20Hz to 20kHz (+0.5dB), with distortion below 0.005 percent at 1kHz/0dBu. Up to 45dB of mic gain is available, with an additional 20dB of gain possible via the channel and master faders. The signal-to-noise ratio is quoted as a healthy 105dB.

Those are just the numbers... On paper they look pretty good I'd say. It looks clean and well-designed, maybe not enough gain for demanding mics with a weak signal. But nothing inherently wrong there what a separate preamp would fix.

Since it also performs as a USB audio interface, I'd say congrats, well done! You need no more hardware between the mic & pc or pc & phones or monitors.

[andymcbain]

Alright, the mixer I am using is an "Alto Professional Live". I don't personally know how to tell if it has good mix preamps, so you can tell me that. If a beginner like me is interested in this mixer, than keep in mind it is not multitrack so you can't separate channels, so you can't use it too record with more than one person because you have to record everything separately. That is fine for me because I am pretty much ALWAYS a solo runner, because I have trouble concentrating at multiple things at once, flaw of mine.

Anyway that got off track. As far as my personal experience, when I use my acoustic guitar (the brand is "Luna" I don't remember the guitar's name) The signal is very good, sometimes where I have to turn it down. My Epiphone Les Paul is pretty quiet, you can here it, but not much. I have been able to get buy with my Boss GT-1 multi effects unit, which is literally a blessing in disguise, has a preamp. my actual mic, has a good signal as well.

I had the same thoughts as well when he said vst preamps

I used to sell Alto gear in the shop I worked in - it was certainly very good value for money. Never had any complaints.

If the electric guitar signal is low when plugged in directly, that would suggest to me that you're not using an instrument level (or HI-Z) input. Maybe this model doesn't have one - in which case you'd need to record using a DI box. The Boss multi effects unit will probably output at line level more or less so you'll have no issues recording through that.

If you're looking to step up the quality of your recordings I would also suggested a dedicated USB audio interface with mic preamps, rather than an external pre-amp. I'm sure the Alto does a decent job at recording - but considering the cost and feature set of these mixers - I imagine compromises will have been made somewhere.