TB-303 Emulators

[acid alex]

https://www.audioblast.me/acidbox.html

Audio Blast Acid Box. I'd like to get my hands on this Really liked it when I demoed it when it came out. It seems a lot louder than Phoscyon, not that that means anything, maybe a built in limiter somewhere, but it has that Sylenth-like LOUD thing going on... Nice. Patterns are drag-able to the DAW, also nice.

The demo sounds awful IMO

[antto]

If I am using ABL3, will I get different results from using the built-in sequencer than sending notes over MIDI? It sounds the same to me either way.

it depends on the midi implementation of ABL and on the behavior of the piano roll (or whatever you use to sequence those midi notes, and any further processing on that midi data)
if you really wanna know the details, here is a little something that covers the problem: http://antonsavov.net/cms/projects/303andmidi.html
but if you just want a quick answer: use the internal sequencer if you want it to sound authentic without much effort, and if the plugin has extra features that the 303 doesn't have (like extra octaves, supersaws, lazerbeams) avoid those too, stick to something realistic like 303 plus distortion and/or other post-effects..

for more realism don't slap an LFO on the parameters, or if you do - only on the cutoff (there are 303 midi kits with the cutoff parameter controllable via MIDI, but not the other params, it's been used by astral projection for example)

also note that in triplet patterns the gate-on duration is not 50% but longer

[acid alex]

If I am using ABL3, will I get different results from using the built-in sequencer than sending notes over MIDI? It sounds the same to me either way.

it depends on the midi implementation of ABL and on the behavior of the piano roll (or whatever you use to sequence those midi notes, and any further processing on that midi data)
if you really wanna know the details, here is a little something that covers the problem: http://antonsavov.net/cms/projects/303andmidi.html
but if you just want a quick answer: use the internal sequencer if you want it to sound authentic without much effort, and if the plugin has extra features that the 303 doesn't have (like extra octaves, supersaws, lazerbeams) avoid those too, stick to something realistic like 303 plus distortion and/or other post-effects..

for more realism don't slap an LFO on the parameters, or if you do - only on the cutoff (there are 303 midi kits with the cutoff parameter controllable via MIDI, but not the other params, it's been used by astral projection for example)

also note that in triplet patterns the gate-on duration is not 50% but longer

Thanks for the info, I'll have a read.

I usually use Maschine to program the ABL3 via MIDI by setting the notes to 32nd and then increasing velocity to 127 for Accents and overlapping notes for slides. It always sounds authentic to me, and I never stopped to think that the same pattern made on the ABL3 sequencer might sound different/true to the original. I do like programming on the Maschine though so I don't have to use my screen/mouse so maybe its a compromise.

[chaosWyrM]

abl3 might be considered the most "accurate" emulation...but, i think thats precisely why i like phoscyon better. phoscyon can and does sound just like a 303, but...it also doesnt have to sound "just" like a 303.

anything abl3 can do phoscyon can do...not so much the other way 'round.

ive never seen acid box before though...it does look interesting.

whatever you choose...i would absolutely look into hy-plugins seq collection 2 to pair with it though. just about the most amazing sequencer ive seen. the "acid" sequencer is powerful, creative, and intuitive, its easily better than the sequencers that come with the plugins...and its like the most bog standard sequencer on it....the other 5 are out all of this world. the darktime/hexa sequencers on a 303 type instrument sound amazing.

[wagtunes]

I just listened to this side by side comparison between the Roland and the ABL3 and I can't hear the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSECwfqvhOw

Seems to me that this is all you need. What am I missing?

[wagtunes]

Also listened to the ABL2 vs Phoscyon. The ABL seems to have more of an edge when screaming. But it's so damn close.

IMO, you can't go wrong with either.

[chk071]

The differences are very subtle, but they're there. Nonetheless, ABL is very good, and also closer than Phoscyon, e.g. If you're looking for real authenticity, ABL is the best option, I guess.

[wagtunes]

The differences are very subtle, but they're there. Nonetheless, ABL is very good, and also closer than Phoscyon, e.g. If you're looking for real authenticity, ABL is the best option, I guess.

Well, I'm listening to the Phoscyon demos now and I love the way this thing sounds. Honestly, I'm not sure which one I love more. I don't see how you can go wrong with either one as far as just pure sound goes.

[sleepcircle]

as i recall, phoscyon has a little more filtering on it to get it closer to the popular sound, whereas abl is completely dry and requires that you do that final brush-up yourself. (i may be wrong)

[wagtunes]

Question: I'm hearing a lot of automation in these demos (both ABL and Phos) such as resonance adjustment, filter opening/closing, etc. Is this being done within the VST itself or inside the DAW? Watching the Phos demo, it appears the automation is in the VST. But I can't tell with the ABL because all I can find are audio clips.

[chk071]

The differences are very subtle, but they're there. Nonetheless, ABL is very good, and also closer than Phoscyon, e.g. If you're looking for real authenticity, ABL is the best option, I guess.

Well, I'm listening to the Phoscyon demos now and I love the way this thing sounds. Honestly, I'm not sure which one I love more. I don't see how you can go wrong with either one as far as just pure sound goes.

True. I don't think there's much between them. Phoscyon is very good too. Small differences in the resonance, maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIxBWhd2_7c

[wagtunes]

Well, I downloaded both demos and the GUI was the dealbreaker. The Phos I can't read the labels on the knobs. There's too much crammed into a relatively small space. Obviously, this is an old plugin as there is no way to resize it and it wasn't made for larger resolutions.

The ABL3, which has fewer controls, is much easier to read. So, it's no contest. I'll be getting the ABL3 if and when I think I need a 303 emulation. I'm toying with the idea of doing an Acid/Pop CD.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses.

[chk071]

Well, I downloaded both demos and the GUI was the dealbreaker. The Phos I can't read the labels on the knobs. There's too much crammed into a relatively small space. Obviously, this is an old plugin as there is no way to resize it and it wasn't made for larger resolutions.

It is. Maybe D16 will release a Phoscyon 2 one day. All their newer plugins have a big GUI with (rudimentary) resize options.

[Echoes in the Attic]

whatever you choose...i would absolutely look into hy-plugins seq collection 2 to pair with it though. just about the most amazing sequencer ive seen. the "acid" sequencer is powerful, creative, and intuitive, its easily better than the sequencers that come with the plugins...and its like the most bog standard sequencer on it....the other 5 are out all of this world. the darktime/hexa sequencers on a 303 type instrument sound amazing.

Great suggestion! I've been wanting a sequencer plugin that's old school like this, similar to modular synth sequencer but with all the goodies (swing, global gate, pattern recall by midi etc.). This one looks quite nice.

As for 303's, I hate to say it but Roland's is the best. Not only for sound but also the sequencer is great. Their cloud is shite though.

Closest sound after that is ABL3. Has a great sequencer too but who cares, there is no swing there, so I would usually trigger it by midi, which is too bad because the sequencer is part of the character and I can't remember all the rules to make it the same as the hardware. I thought I read somewhere that the note length of a 303 step was 2/3 of a quarter note, but I can't find anything to back that up.

Next is Phoscyon, which is what I have. GUI is horrible and it does not have a visual step sequencer like the other two but you can get it very cheap. The sound isn't bad at, but I find the square is not nearly as beefy as you get with the other 2. Mostly important for those low basslines (but I have other good 303 sound sources for those like in Omnisphere/Trilian). I do really like the little extras that Phoscyon added like the global step length knob and separate envelope amounts. You can hear some cool manipulation of these extra parameters in some of the recent plastikman albums, where he's clearly using phoscyon.

[Echoes in the Attic]

whatever you choose...i would absolutely look into hy-plugins seq collection 2 to pair with it though. just about the most amazing sequencer ive seen. the "acid" sequencer is powerful, creative, and intuitive, its easily better than the sequencers that come with the plugins...and its like the most bog standard sequencer on it....the other 5 are out all of this world. the darktime/hexa sequencers on a 303 type instrument sound amazing.

Great suggestion! I've been wanting a sequencer plugin that's old school like this, similar to modular synth sequencer but with all the goodies (swing, global gate, pattern recall by midi etc.). This one looks quite nice.

Really great sequencer! And all the important parameters are automatable so it can be controlled by hardware like Maschine or Push or Novation Remote SLs. Plus it's touch screen friendly! So glad you mentioned this, great little sequencer!