Frustrated with lack of production skills/progress

[TW1306]

I've been a big fan of older electronic music, mostly trance/hard trance from late 90s to early/mid 2000s, and I've been trying to make my own tracks in that vein for the past five years. However, I keep getting frustrated by my lack of progress; my sound design skills are pretty much non-existent (especially in terms of 'complex' sounds like FX or even pads), I don't how to get the sounds I want and any that I do make never seem to gel/mix well together. I only manage to finish about one full-length track in a year, and even then they never sound like a proper 'label-standard' track - i.e. something that genuinely sounds like it could have come from that time period.

I'm sure I've got all the software (reason 10, plenty of samples and plugins including some emulations of older hardware) that I could possibly need to make decent sounding tracks, but I just don't know what I'm doing wrong/not doing, or what exactly I need to do to improve.

Here are some (out of many, since there are obviously hundreds of tracks that fall into the kind of area I mean) examples of the kind of style/sound/etc I've been aiming for:
youtube.com/watch?v=TjfnpQBSukM
youtube.com/watch?v=sPwlZLLc50Y
youtube.com/watch?v=dzNDg9FZBDA
youtube.com/watch?v=_HpndUz_zDs
youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fIoghdcpg
youtube.com/watch?v=a6h7jWyo2fI
youtube.com/watch?v=OXfmo8xxUqw

And here's the most recent tracks I've finished along with my most recent 'acceptable' draft:
youtube.com/watch?v=2yrVqSfVsUU
youtube.com/watch?v=QlOH_undHcM
soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/track-798-draft

Any and all advice would be very much appreciated, as this is something I've dedicated myself to for years and I really don't want to give it up.

[clipnotic]

Okay, I'll try to help you a bit

I'm old and I started making music in the 90s and I made party almost every day in many clubs and I collected thousands of records and CDs. This time is still influencing me by making music and I don't like that current "EDM / Future, Mickey Mouse voice..." crap. As I started making music I tried to imitate my favorite musicians and analyzed their music step by step to learn. Meanwhile I can produce almost every style from that time, because I can program my own sounds and I spend two years to learn music theory and harmony, which helps me very much especially by Trance Music!

So, you simply should optimize your skills! If you learn how to program sounds you also can work much better with presets, because you can adjust them in the mix! And if you learn harmony, you can create nice melodies and chords.

And today you have an big advantage, because you get really good presets and midi files, which helps a lot to get fast solutions without learning!

EDIT:
Start with subtractive synthesis to program sounds and the basics of harmony!

[Passing Bye]

Agree with clipnotic, maybe start using great presets and reverse engineer them, you can learn a lot from that, Aiyn Zahev make great presets for electronic music, actually he's really into same kind of trance sound as you, so there's packs where's he's really inspired by that era, so maybe get into new synth with new great sounds you can use, tweak and learn from.

https://www.aiynzahev-sounds.com/
https://soundcloud.com/aiyn-zahev/trans ... ix-context

Next guy that you can learn from about trance sound design is Adam Szabo, he's also creator of emulations of some legendary trance synths like JP and Virus, so same deal, maybe get some of his presets or even get into his synths, get inspired further.

https://www.adamszabo.com/
https://soundcloud.com/adamszabo/jp6k-demo

But outcome is sum of all parts, your stuff sound decent and you can always improve everything, treat your room further, get better speakers, get more into production aspect, study more about basic and creative usage of effects, it will all start adding up.

There's no shortage of tutorials on music making on You Tube, also there's some quality stuff you can pay subscription for too

https://www.dancemusicproduction.com/
https://www.sonicacademy.com/

Never stop investing in yourself, it will pay off, up your composing, programming and mixing game, if you by any chance have barely decent room and speakers, take care of that first, it will immediately improve your music, learn and enjoy!

[mattfourmat]

Hey man,

Best advice I can give is choose your educational sources carefully, I know its not easy if you're new ect. The problem is, just because people can make music/ make beats/ mix and master, does not mean they should be putting out educational content that has no structure to it, the same way someone should not be a personal trainer just because they have a 6 Pack.

Yes gathering bits on info here and there can be great but if you feel that you are not making progress then I would find an online course that has structured learning, that way you actually progress!

Also if you struggle to find influence or feel not motivated, try making a different genre you will pick up new skills in no time!

[ztrauq]

I don't know a whole lot abut this genre, but I think that you've got it down decently in terms of the basic sounds and structure. Having listened to a lot of electronic music, though, the thing that really sets the "professional" stuff apart for me are the little things: the precisely matched transitions. Those little sounds here and there, one-offs even, that add distinction to what might otherwise be a monotonous synth line. The subtle layered sounds that on their own would seem like nothing special, even annoying, but add that extra "sparkle" on top. And yeah, probably additional mixing/mastering chops, but I think it really is a lot of those touches that elevate something from cookie-cutter to special.

[SneakyBeats]

Just do what I did. Get frustrated, give up, create finally a profile in kvr and hang around here pretending you'd be doing something smart with your time

[andymcbain]

I listened to a couple of your tracks on YouTube - good work I thought, and definitely reminded me of late 90s - early 2000s trance.

If you're specifically trying to recreate a particular sound then A/B referencing will help a lot with the process, so I'd pick up something like Metric A/B if you don't have it already (assuming Reason handles third party plugins?)

In those days most producers didn't have the luxury of complex parametric EQ or other complex processing on every channel - so the key to a good mix was well thought out arrangements with space for each element - and the best possible or most appropriate source sounds... suppose it still is!!!!

If you're struggling with sound design then don't be afraid of presets and sample packs. We don't have time to be the best at everything. If I find the perfect sound in Nexus then I'd sooner use that than spend hours / days trying to recreate it.

Also worth finding a mastering engineer who knows your genre well - and get a working relationship with them. You can often learn a lot from a mastering engineer's feedback

[DJ Warmonger]

Also... most of 2000s' tunes are way below modern mix standards, and won't work in current context. So if you're trying to recreate 2000s style with 2020 power, you must fail.

Some prog tunes from the list above now would be found in "progressive" or "deep house" catalog.

Probably the only proper trancer from that period, which still holds strong, is Blank & Jones - DJ Culture (Original Mix).
https://open.spotify.com/track/3qoeH7lQ ... eiH3nLEr9Q
Half of what's now called (uplifting) trance recycles that track - hollow but dynamic 16th bass, pentatonic arpeggio with saw lead and slow buildup, acid arps, little stutters / drum rolls at the end of 16 every bars.

[PieBerger]

Don't sweat it. I've been producing on and off for 16 years around full time study and work and I've only just been signed to one of the labels, whose artists and releases inspired me to have a go at making my own music. 5 years just isn't that long, although it certainly feels like it at the time Just keep pushing on and try to make finishing your tracks a priority even if they are a bit shit. I went from finishing about 1 track a year, to 1 a month in the last 12-18 months and my productions have improved massively and around half of them are now scheduled for release this year.

Self doubt and frustration is normal, but imo finishing stuff, no matter how bad is the best way to deal with these problems. A shit track that is finished is still a finished track, shit tracks that you don't finish are still shit, but you miss out on the satisfaction and learning experience of seeing a project through to the end.

[TW1306]

Also... most of 2000s' tunes are way below modern mix standards, and won't work in current context. So if you're trying to recreate 2000s style with 2020 power, you must fail.

I'm not trying to get stuff signed/released in the first place really, if that does ever happen that'll just be a bonus. I just want to be able to recreate that era/style etc, so if you say that those tracks are 'way below modern mix standards' I'd be interested to know how I could achieve that with '2020 power' if you have any advice/suggestions on that.

[clipnotic]

Also... most of 2000s' tunes are way below modern mix standards, and won't work in current context. So if you're trying to recreate 2000s style with 2020 power, you must fail.

Sorry, but that's nonsense!

I'm also producing Trance Classic stuff and many other genres from the 90s and current genres, too. The only difference in the mix today is, that "modern" mixes often pump there loudness extremely, use saturation or and kill much frequencies to avoid distortion. And the same you can do with every music and it also works with classic electronic genres! And especially Trance sounds are often the same today like back in the days.

And I worked a long time with an mastering engineer!

[imrae]

If "modern mix standards" require people to change their arrangements and use different sounds, I don't see how anyone can claim they are objectively better.