Sound design for older (i.e. 1998-2004) trance

[TW1306]

I've been struggling with trying to make trance/hard trance in the same vein as the late 90s - early/mid 2000s, but since my sound design skills are still practically non-existent I've really found it difficult to get authentic-sounding synths/leads/pads etc. Are there any particular tricks/processes I could/should be using? For what it's worth I've been using Reason 7's in-built devices and a couple of extra plugins (mostly synth1), though I've been told that it doesn't matter what synth I use since most sounds can be gotten out of any.

Here are some examples (out of many) of the kind of styles/sounds etc I've been aiming for:
youtube.com/watch?v=TjfnpQBSukM
youtube.com/watch?v=sPwlZLLc50Y
youtube.com/watch?v=dzNDg9FZBDA
youtube.com/watch?v=_HpndUz_zDs
youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fIoghdcpg
youtube.com/watch?v=a6h7jWyo2fI
youtube.com/watch?v=OXfmo8xxUqw

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[CHOOS]

If you can specify which sound you're trying to emulate in a song it would be easier to assist.
I opened the first one and in a 12 min mix there are quite a few sounds.

[TW1306]

If you can specify which sound you're trying to emulate in a song it would be easier to assist.
I opened the first one and in a 12 min mix there are quite a few sounds.

My point is it's not one specific sound, but sound design for this kind of genre in general that I'm struggling with and asking for advice on.

[CHOOS]

Not being a dick here but it's kinda like asking how to build and airplane. Where do you start?

On youtube if you look for free trance project I'm sure you'll get quite some good video's that might have templates in them.

Then you can look up:
- How to make a trance kick
- How to make a trance saw lead
- How to make a trance arp
- How to make a trance 303
- How to make a trance bass
etc etc.

Or if you've made something so far you could upload it and ask others opinions and how to improve or how to mix etc.

What do you have so far? The drums and bass? chords/melody?

I'll gladly help but I need some more info

[excuse me please]

I'm doing trance/dance. You need saturation and tube emulation on your master buss to get that 90's sound IMHO. In other words: dynamic eq.
Then you need a master compressor which also colors the sound a bit. That way you have great control over your sound. I just tried a lot of compressors and dynamic eqs until I liked the sound.
I'm able to get a nice, warm sound with synths like Tal-Bassline, Mono/Fury and Cobalt. All free synths

[chk071]

Use older soft synths. Don't make use of unison. Use Roland drum machines.

There are 2 soft synths I can recommend with kind of that vintage sound: ZETA+ and V-Station. Maybe also Adam Szabo's JP6K.

[TW1306]

Not being a dick here but it's kinda like asking how to build and airplane. Where do you start?

Well I was wondering if there was any specific process/device/tips/whatever that would inherently give a sound an 'older' vibe - even just something like "use a physical piece of hardware from that time period"

Or if you've made something so far you could upload it and ask others opinions and how to improve or how to mix etc.

What do you have so far? The drums and bass? chords/melody?

I'll gladly help but I need some more info

Alright, here's the most recent full tracks I've finished (the only two in the last two years):
youtube.com/watch?v=2yrVqSfVsUU
Admittedly all of the sounds in this were created by me (i.e. not from presets) except the drum samples, but the whole thing still lacks an authentic 2000s-trance sound to me.

youtube.com/watch?v=QlOH_undHcM
Only the acid line and the lead synth were created by me, the bass/fx/beat is all samples (with some effects like reverb/delay etc added by me) (even the vocal sample is taken directly from the original track)

Basses are probably the thing I struggle with most, especially getting them to sit well with a beat while also having the right amount of low end, but in general I can't seem to be able to get an authentic sound overall - i.e. something that genuinely sounds like it could have come from that era.

[excuse me please]

I'd listen to this track as reference:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RTrXIlB1RbA

[chk071]

I really think that a lot of that old sound is due to limited synths (that's why I mentioned "don't use unison"), the lack of sound layering, production techniques, and the drum machines/samples. Also, a simple high cut on the sounds might do wonders, as the productions simply don't sound very hi-fi.

Oh, what I also often notice is that those old synths used in those productions often sound a bit "resonant". Either they always used a bit of resonance, or it's just the VA synths character. Dune 1 also had that, that it always sounds a bit resonant, even with the resonance at 0.

[CHOOS]

Dude!
That tune is pretty F-in sweet!

I though you knew F-All by your post but you seem to know quite a bit.

A few tips on how to make things more old-school:
-Low-passing most stuff. It's rare to hear the highest of frequencies in old stuff in the leads. The hats etc take care of the highs in the mix
-Distortion as mentioned before. to add warmth en drive
-Tape modeling plugins to add some instability to the sound. nothing crazy but a digital saw sounds... Digital. It's the sligt "imperfections" of analog gear that makes it sound analog. So the same goes for LFO's. Assign things like pitch fine tuning and even a little to the filter etc so create tiny bits of variation to you sounds.
I'm not sure if you applied swing to your project (to me) it sounded a little ''stiff" as if all was programmed in. By adding swing and volume variation in your hats etc you create an aliveness to the sound. Same with any sound really. If you record what you're playing you'll automatically get some volume and timing differences.

You're mix sounded fairly warm bordering on muddy but definitely not too much which is how older stuff sounded so in this case that fits well.
Nowadays things tend to sound too clean but in this case in my opinion it's not.

Mixing kick n bass is hard and simple at the same time.
If you tune the kick to fit with the notes of the bass and use side-chaining and or completely separate the two from playing at the same time than it just a matter of setting the volumes right which depends on the genre but by listening on a few different speakers/headphones/car speakers will sort that out.

In terms of synths... Everyone's got an asshole(I mean an opinion) but I've 99% of the time been able to get what I wanted from simple free synths. Use whatever you're familiar with and keep playing around till you get what you like.
If you have the sound you want try swapping it out with the best of the best (whichever that is) and go between them and see if you notice a difference or a big enough one in the full mix to make a difference (I doubt it).
But some synths do have better/worse unison engines or filters or modulation capabilities.

I once made a lead melody in 6 different synths all playing the same notes and I was able to get a very similar sound out of them all but all did sound slightly different. But it's not like the best synth sounded best just slightly different and in a mix I ended up using the one with the lowest CPU usage because It didn't make the track sound worse in any way.

[tehlord]

I really think that a lot of that old sound is due to limited synths (that's why I mentioned "don't use unison"), the lack of sound layering, production techniques, and the drum machines/samples. Also, a simple high cut on the sounds might do wonders, as the productions simply don't sound very hi-fi.

Oh, what I also often notice is that those old synths used in those productions often sound a bit "resonant". Either they always used a bit of resonance, or it's just the VA synths character. Dune 1 also had that, that it always sounds a bit resonant, even with the resonance at 0.

Unison was all over the place by then. They were using Nord Leads, Virus, JP8k etc. Layering was also very much a thing, but not to the level it is today as the computational power just wasn't there yet.

A lot of guys were still recording to tape, or at least ADAT. ADAT in particular sounded really good in comparison to ITB tracking today, but they were also mixing for vinyl a lot back then so the overall 'hifi' sound you're referring to was irrelevant as it can't be reproduced on a vinyl cut anyway.

[AnX]

Synth1
V Station
Discovery
Dune CM
Albino 3

[chk071]

I really think that a lot of that old sound is due to limited synths (that's why I mentioned "don't use unison"), the lack of sound layering, production techniques, and the drum machines/samples. Also, a simple high cut on the sounds might do wonders, as the productions simply don't sound very hi-fi.

Oh, what I also often notice is that those old synths used in those productions often sound a bit "resonant". Either they always used a bit of resonance, or it's just the VA synths character. Dune 1 also had that, that it always sounds a bit resonant, even with the resonance at 0.

Unison was all over the place by then. They were using Nord Leads, Virus, JP8k etc. Layering was also very much a thing, but not to the level it is today as the computational power just wasn't there yet.

Did the first Nord Leads have unison? I know that the first Viruses didn't, and, I also hear very simple 2 oscillator (or so) sawtooth patches in many sounds in oldschool Trance. So, I guess it really depends on which time period we're taking about, of course, in the really 2000's, they more and more used unison because the synths allowed that. I don't know if it really was such a thing before the JP-8K, because I really don't know any VA's which allowed for it.

[excuse me please]

Can get close to these ancient sounds by running 8 VST synths in unison (MIDI); resonance! It's not for the faint hearted though. You'll get artifacts, resonance jumps, phasing etc. etc. But after a few months of tweaking 8 synths against a kick, you'll get my point. I started off with 12 synths

Now I have one bar running on repeat finished (kick+synths only) and won't touch my DAW for the next few weeks. Mission accomplished.

PS chk071 did observe that well, chapeau!

[GRUMP]

I really think that a lot of that old sound is due to limited synths (that's why I mentioned "don't use unison"), the lack of sound layering, production techniques, and the drum machines/samples. Also, a simple high cut on the sounds might do wonders, as the productions simply don't sound very hi-fi.

Oh, what I also often notice is that those old synths used in those productions often sound a bit "resonant". Either they always used a bit of resonance, or it's just the VA synths character. Dune 1 also had that, that it always sounds a bit resonant, even with the resonance at 0.

Unison was all over the place by then. They were using Nord Leads, Virus, JP8k etc. Layering was also very much a thing, but not to the level it is today as the computational power just wasn't there yet.

Did the first Nord Leads have unison? I know that the first Viruses didn't, and, I also hear very simple 2 oscillator (or so) sawtooth patches in many sounds in oldschool Trance. So, I guess it really depends on which time period we're taking about, of course, in the really 2000's, they more and more used unison because the synths allowed that. I don't know if it really was such a thing before the JP-8K, because I really don't know any VA's which allowed for it.

Virus A had/hast Unison. Maybe not in 1.0, but latest 1998.