Why you left Bitwig?

[cryophonik]

Honestly, I can’t pinpoint exactly why I left Bitwig. Well, I technically didn’t leave it since I still own a license, but I haven’t installed it since ditching Windows and going 100% Mac a year ago. Bitwig just doesn’t fit my workflow or way of thinking. The workflow just feels cumbersome, chaotic, and disorganized to me, whereas other DAWs (e.g., Logic, Sonar, Studio One, Cubase) feel very comfortable to me and do what I need them to do. I’m fairly comfortable with Ableton as well, but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

[Biscotto]

Bitwig is just a few guys- they have 3-4 developers I think...Ableton are a massive company with a long history. I somehow feel more connected to Bitwig and part of the journey.

I have been with Live since 4 (and am still a user with 10 suite) and I can't honestly say I am more productive with Bitwig- Live is focused and does what it does well...but I just do music for fun and I love losing hours with MPE, the Grid and the modulation stuff (especially with with my modular). I have also grown to live the sampler in Bigwig more, but that just personal choice.

I could never do in Max what I can do in the Grid, but I also love the tools other people develop MAX...so they both have a place for me...the Grid is easy to use, intuitive and properly integrated in to the workflow...whenever I try to ue max I always feel like I am starting /entering a different program.

As for me- On windows I have no bugs with Bitwig and if anything I find it snapper and faster than Live 10 and definitely better on CPU (there are lots of posts on this on the Live forum) but both are perfectly usable for what I do, I just really miss the pop up browser in Live...hopefully more collections will come soon to Live and that will help.

I guess its all about what works for you productively and/or what you find interesting/enjoy- I am glad I don't have to leave either

These days there are 5 Bitwig developers...

I was happy using Live (used to be) except for MPE. Once I got my Linnstrument Bitwig became the choice for me. Once I got used to Bitwig, I couldn't go back even if Live added full MPE support. I just wouldn't want to be without Bitwig's modulation system. Especially for Bitwig instruments, Live doesn't come close to the capability of Bitwig's modulation capabilities. I use Bitwig's instruments much more than I ever used Live included instruments because of the modulation.

For a lot of people though, I can see why they would prefer Live. From what I hear, M4L has much improved stability these days. Back before Live 10 when I still used Live, M4L crashed constantly with anything more than small simple use. I hear it is much better now.

In my experience m4l is extremely stable and powerful. But you’re right, it wasn’t always this way.

I also understand your need for MPE, for which I have no use of, but eventually most of the DAWs will get there at the right time when a more universal demand will be impossible to ignore.

Maybe one day I’ll will move to BWS as a main tool again.... as you may move again to another Daw as you evolve in your craft.

[Biscotto]

but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

Very true! Only then I felt the power built in Ableton’s workflow and I went back home

[Passing Bye]

I feel quite the opposite of popular opinion last few posts, Ableton makes me quit music instead, other DAW's like Logic, Cubase and etc feel cumbersome to do basic things and get myself going, pretty happy with Bitwig, from here it can just get better and better.

[xbitz]

but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

Very true! Only then I felt the power built in Ableton’s workflow and I went back home

dunno still like Logic better and because Reaktor can be used as MIDIfx plugin(so can generate CC signals) don't miss M4L etc. and its capabilities too much


it also has huge custom made device library https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ and blocks https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ ones are quite a user friendly ones

ps. by default it hasn't got MIDI through it can be downloaded from here https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... fx.335169/

[revvy]

nm

[pdxindy]

In my experience m4l is extremely stable and powerful. But you’re right, it wasn’t always this way.

I also understand your need for MPE, for which I have no use of, but eventually most of the DAWs will get there at the right time when a more universal demand will be impossible to ignore.

Maybe one day I’ll will move to BWS as a main tool again.... as you may move again to another Daw as you evolve in your craft.

I liked the idea of M4L, but in practice I ended up not using it much. Live depends on M4L for modulation but it is just not integrated and fluid like Bitwig. It's clunky to work with for modulation and sound design. In Live, I solved that for myself by using mainly VST's for sound design... VST's that have enough modulation built into themselves that they are self contained. So I didn't use Live's instruments much cause they are modulation limited.

I use Bitwig's instruments much more than I ever used Live's. Even the simplest sound generators like the Organ device can create beautiful complex sounds with Bitwig's modulation, voice stacking and MPE. There isn't anything else out there like Bitwig's modulation system.

I'm flexible myself and could happily make music with most any stable and modern DAW. They are all so capable these days. I love deep sound design so that (along with excellent MPE support) is why I prefer Bitwig. I also have Logic cause it covers some stuff that Bitwig doesn't.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I also understand your need for MPE, for which I have no use of, but eventually most of the DAWs will get there at the right time when a more universal demand will be impossible to ignore.

Aren't we already there? It's harder to name DAWs that don't do MPE at this point. Most of the biggies have it anyways: Logic, Reaper, Cubase, Studio One, Bitwig, Waveform.

[Biscotto]

I also understand your need for MPE, for which I have no use of, but eventually most of the DAWs will get there at the right time when a more universal demand will be impossible to ignore.

Aren't we already there? It's harder to name DAWs that don't do MPE at this point. Most of the biggies have it anyways: Logic, Reaper, Cubase, Studio One, Bitwig, Waveform.

Correct; Almost.

[Biscotto]

but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

Very true! Only then I felt the power built in Ableton’s workflow and I went back home

dunno still like Logic better and because Reaktor can be used as MIDIfx plugin(so can generate CC signals) don't miss M4L etc. and its capabilities too much


it also has huge custom made device library https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ and blocks https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ ones are quite a user friendly ones

ps. by default it hasn't got MIDI through it can be downloaded from here https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... fx.335169/

I’m not into making devices, I use ready made M4L tools (and it’s a rabbit hole man), I prefer using my time to create music using powerful tools. I love Reaktor and VCV rack too and I’m looking into Logic due to the last update since I use Windows and Mac but Ableton is so immediate that I make my best music with it.

[Biscotto]

In my experience m4l is extremely stable and powerful. But you’re right, it wasn’t always this way.

I also understand your need for MPE, for which I have no use of, but eventually most of the DAWs will get there at the right time when a more universal demand will be impossible to ignore.

Maybe one day I’ll will move to BWS as a main tool again.... as you may move again to another Daw as you evolve in your craft.

I liked the idea of M4L, but in practice I ended up not using it much. Live depends on M4L for modulation but it is just not integrated and fluid like Bitwig. It's clunky to work with for modulation and sound design. In Live, I solved that for myself by using mainly VST's for sound design... VST's that have enough modulation built into themselves that they are self contained. So I didn't use Live's instruments much cause they are modulation limited.

I use Bitwig's instruments much more than I ever used Live's. Even the simplest sound generators like the Organ device can create beautiful complex sounds with Bitwig's modulation, voice stacking and MPE. There isn't anything else out there like Bitwig's modulation system.

I'm flexible myself and could happily make music with most any stable and modern DAW. They are all so capable these days. I love deep sound design so that (along with excellent MPE support) is why I prefer Bitwig. I also have Logic cause it covers some stuff that Bitwig doesn't.

I know you love sound design and I remember you Bazille stuff and so BWS is right up your alley for sure.
I’m not into sound design in that sense and more into composing since I’m a basically a piano player from 5 years of age and "One Type" of sound is actually plenty for me and so, Ableton gets out of the way while BWS steps on my feet.

I mean, this topic was why you left, not why stick with it and so here I am.

[xbitz]

but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

Very true! Only then I felt the power built in Ableton’s workflow and I went back home

dunno still like Logic better and because Reaktor can be used as MIDIfx plugin(so can generate CC signals) don't miss M4L etc. and its capabilities too much


it also has huge custom made device library https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ and blocks https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ ones are quite a user friendly ones

ps. by default it hasn't got MIDI through it can be downloaded from here https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... fx.335169/

I’m not into making devices, I use ready made M4L tools (and it’s a rabbit hole man), I prefer using my time to create music using powerful tools. I love Reaktor and VCV rack too and I’m looking into Logic due to the last update since I use Windows and Mac but Ableton is so immediate that I make my best music with it.

fyi. it's working same in Logic too just it doesn't have native MSEG device (Logic own modulator is a
bit basic one so happy accidents can't be created with it or the happy accidents also need happy accidents ), so a Reaktor instance has to be put into a MIDIfx slot and emitted CC signals should be rerouted to different device parameters (effects can't be routed to MIDI CCs directly)

^^^ Reaktor CC > Modifier > Serumfx Macro1 (instruments can see the emitted MIDI CC signals directly that one is easier)

"I’m not into making devices, " also not making devices blocks are my friends

[Biscotto]

but Bitwig just makes me want to use Ableton instead.

Very true! Only then I felt the power built in Ableton’s workflow and I went back home

dunno still like Logic better and because Reaktor can be used as MIDIfx plugin(so can generate CC signals) don't miss M4L etc. and its capabilities too much


it also has huge custom made device library https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ and blocks https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... est/1/all/ ones are quite a user friendly ones

ps. by default it hasn't got MIDI through it can be downloaded from here https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... fx.335169/

I’m not into making devices, I use ready made M4L tools (and it’s a rabbit hole man), I prefer using my time to create music using powerful tools. I love Reaktor and VCV rack too and I’m looking into Logic due to the last update since I use Windows and Mac but Ableton is so immediate that I make my best music with it.

fyi. it's working same in Logic too just it doesn't have native MSEG device (Logic own modulator is a
bit basic one so happy accidents can't be created with it or the happy accidents also need happy accidents ), so a Reaktor instance has to be put into a MIDIfx slot and emitted CC signals should be rerouted to different device parameters (effects can't be routed to MIDI CCs directly)

^^^ Reaktor CC > Modifier > Serumfx Macro1

"I’m not into making devices, " also not making devices blocks are my friends

I'm very familiar with your great videos tips! I just wish I had your patience Blocks do sound very satisfing but I'm also getting back to hardware big time (thinking Moog One etc.), I like to have tactile experience once again since I sold all my gear when I left my country.

Btw: since I own both I will try your Reaktor suggestion.

[pdxindy]

I'm very familiar with your great videos tips! I just wish I had your patience Blocks do sound very satisfing but I'm also getting back to hardware big time (thinking Moog One etc.), I like to have tactile experience once again since I sold all my gear when I left my country.

Btw: since I own both I will try your Reaktor suggestion.

I ended up returning my Moog One... the fan noise drove me nuts and I didn't immediately love the sound. The Moog Matriarch however, was love at first listen and I feel the same way still today.

I find Blocks just too heavy on the CPU... I don't have a very powerful computer and feel like I have to be careful too much. Plus it is tedious to use. Sounds great, but I don't find it fun and so I stopped using it.

The Matriarch is awesome to use... big spacious workspace, well placed patch points so cables don't get in the way. I find Eurorack controls all just too small and fiddly for my fingers. Still better than software, but I can be playing the Matriarch and my hand knows where to go to do something with no mental attention. The Matriarch is a true joy to use... and the sound

My conclusion (for myself) is that for analog modular, hardware is better for me due to workflow and creative inspiration.

[Biscotto]

I'm very familiar with your great videos tips! I just wish I had your patience Blocks do sound very satisfing but I'm also getting back to hardware big time (thinking Moog One etc.), I like to have tactile experience once again since I sold all my gear when I left my country.

Btw: since I own both I will try your Reaktor suggestion.

I ended up returning my Moog One... the fan noise drove me nuts and I didn't immediately love the sound. The Moog Matriarch however, was love at first listen and I feel the same way still today.

I find Blocks just too heavy on the CPU... I don't have a very powerful computer and feel like I have to be careful too much. Plus it is tedious to use. Sounds great, but I don't find it fun and so I stopped using it.

The Matriarch is awesome to use... big spacious workspace, well placed patch points so cables don't get in the way. I find Eurorack controls all just too small and fiddly for my fingers. Still better than software, but I can be playing the Matriarch and my hand knows where to go to do something with no mental attention. The Matriarch is a true joy to use... and the sound

My conclusion (for myself) is that for analog modular, hardware is better for me due to workflow and creative inspiration.

The Fan Noise! Manhattan would take care of it YES the Matriarch is on my list of course. I have Two Mothers 32 and love them.
I grew up with the Minimoog and ARP sounds (ELP, YES, Weather Report/Joe Zawinul) so I'm attracted to those sounds, I still hear them...
I used to play live in my country; no more. Ableton (or BTW for that matter) would had been so much fun to use if this technology existed then.