KVR Audio

wuworld · Post by **wuworld** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm

Alright guys what's your take on the DAW market right now? Any surprises for you as for success? Have you switched DAW's? What companies do you see doing a DAW in the future? So we have Behringer, NI with Maschine (improving sequencer), Izotope Spire (maybe?), Korg Gadget (bringing it to PC/Mac)? I'm curious what direction Studio One is going. I could say the same for Logic.

My one question is why don't Roland, Korg, and Yamaha have a DAW. Really more of the hardware/software tight integration like Presonus is doing. Why not focus on that area? Look at Roland. They could have it's own version of Komplete Kontrol hardware/software. Imagine Roland with it's own software like Komplete Kontrol with all the Roland Synths (roland cloud), MV 8800 drum kits etc. Steinberg the same thing. Absolute collection with various vintage yamaha synths with a yamaha midi controller (similar to komplete kontrol). All of that with great integration with Cubase. What about a drum controller for Groove Agent?

wuworld · Post by **wuworld** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:41 pm

Forgot to add UAD Luna etc.

andypryce · Post by **andypryce** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:13 pm

Studio One is going strong. Adding both traditional features and trending stuff with each update.

Latest Logic is terrific. They just need to solve the PDC issues and add a few workflow features like plugin search, drag drop etc.

Cubase is living in its own universe not caring much about current trends and workflows but has a fantastic feature set. Just simple stuff takes more clicks and menu diving.

I am curious about the upcoming Live update but it feels like there won't be any updates anymore

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:25 pm

wuworld wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm My one question is why don't Roland, Korg, and Yamaha have a DAW.

Yamaha has Cubase/Nuendo. They don't give a damn about the software social media celebrity is using.

Greenstorm33 · Post by **Greenstorm33** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:45 pm

Will be interesting to see if anyone equals or beats Bitwig's browser. That's a huge part of the reason I use it. Tracktion is close but seems to perpetually be a buggy mess (the whole DAW, not the browser specifically) and there are a bunch of little workflow things that add up to me not liking it nearly as much as Bitwig.

andypryce · Post by **andypryce** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:52 pm

Greenstorm33 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:45 pm Will be interesting to see if anyone equals or beats Bitwig's browser. That's a huge part of the reason I use it. Tracktion is close but seems to perpetually be a buggy mess (the whole DAW, not the browser specifically) and there are a bunch of little workflow things that add up to me not liking it nearly as much as Bitwig.

+1
Bitwig's browser is insane

Bysta · Post by **Bysta** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:15 pm

I am a PC user. 15 years ago i was using Acid for quickly patching ideas together and worked in Cubase. I was also fiddling around with the first couple of iterations of Reason. I hade a long pause. Nowdays, I found out that Ableton is handling my ideas right and arrangement view is decent enough that i dont have an urge to go to Cubase again.

No other DAW managed to get my attention since i got back into music. I don't know...maybe I'm missing something big ?

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:35 pm

wuworld wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm My one question is why don't Roland, Korg, and Yamaha have a DAW.

Steinberg is owned by Yamaha, so Cubase/Nuendo is their daw.
Roland used to own Cakewalk, so Sonar was their daw, but recently they launched Zenbeats.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:01 pm

I'll bite. This is relevant to me right now. I've made the decision to use MPE controllers, and my two main DAWs were Ableton Live and MOTU Digital Performer, both of which do not natively do MPE.

This led me to getting Logic again, also for ten year old song I did in Logic. I derailed myself exploring Reaper, great DAW, but I wasn't really happy with either not having clips like Ableton Live. So I got into Bitwig. At this point it's a shootout between Bitwig and Logic, since Logic introduced clips.

It's hard to deny Logic, the money behind it makes it ridiculously feature packed. There are always weird decisions made by every DAW that they never fix though. In Logic it's a MIDI input limitation, no port assignments, only channel separation, so 16 inputs. Bitwig allows for port separation on input. You can assign say the Linnstrument here to a split with 8 channels of MPE on one instrument and 8 on another, then assign keyboards like my Akai MPK88 to another separate instrument in Bitwig. Logic on the other hand again, is already using AI with it's drummers and other areas. Apple really haven't held back lately, the iPad app is amazing.

At this point things are getting expensive developer wise, I really do Love DP and Live, but they aren't spending the money that gets spent on Logic: Articulation Mappings, MPE, the Grid with clips, AI drummers, integrating Alchemy, step sequencers and iPad apps that actually just do what they should etc.

I think though, in a lot of ways the smaller DAWs have some amazing strengths in areas that the bigger ones often miss. Bitwig as mentioned with MPE and multi MIDI inputs, great Controller support from Moss etc. But it's not surprising that Cubase and Logic have the most features what with Yamaha and Apple behind them.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:28 pm

hmmm. ya...

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:59 pm

I think the main trend we're seeing is how traditional, linear DAWs - DP, Logic, Cubase, S1, etc. - add stuff catering to hobbyist producers: clip launchers, pattern sequencers, sample slicers, drum machines, etc. I think they saw that's where the money is, because professionals don't upgrade their software that often and usually stick to one DAW.

The next frontier will be touch UI, when Apple migrates their Macs to ARM and merges OSX with iOS.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:34 pm

antic604 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:59 pm I think the main trend we're seeing is how traditional, linear DAWs - DP, Logic, Cubase, S1, etc. - add stuff catering to hobbyist producers: clip launchers, pattern sequencers, sample slicers, drum machines, etc. I think they saw that's where the money is, because professionals don't upgrade their software that often and usually stick to one DAW.

The next frontier will be touch UI, when Apple migrates their Macs to ARM and merges OSX with iOS.

I think they add in everything. Cubase and Logic are the only two DAWs as of now that do Articulation or Expression mapping, that's not at all a feature addressing the hobbyist.

They have bigger budgets, they add in more things.

Halonmusic · Post by **Halonmusic** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:53 pm

Used to use FL Studio since version 3. Switched to EnergyXT in 2016 or so. Also use Reaper quite a bit aswell.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:00 pm

machinesworking wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:34 pm They have bigger budgets, they add in more things.

Sure, but they could've did that 5-10 years ago. Why now? Because the market is saturated and very competitive, with feature lists getting bigger, prices getting lower (or at least not growing) and new business models being necessary to stay afloat. It's an obvious move to expand to new markets / user bases.

Also, I imagine Steinberg or Apple execs not being happy seeing Live or FL taking the crown of "Top DAW" year after year, when they know they have - technically - superior products.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:32 pm

antic604 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:00 pm
machinesworking wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:34 pm They have bigger budgets, they add in more things.
Sure, but they could've did that 5-10 years ago. Why now? Because the market is saturated and very competitive, with feature lists getting bigger, prices getting lower (or at least not growing) and new business models being necessary to stay afloat. It's an obvious move to expand to new markets / user bases.

Also, I imagine Steinberg or Apple execs not being happy seeing Live or FL taking the crown of "Top DAW" year after year, when they know they have - technically - superior products.

All DAWs follow suite with each other. Live got freeze tracks, capture last take as recording, automation faders etc. all features Logic and Cubase already had. Does that mean that Ableton is worried about the superior market share of Logic?

This "top DAW" crown. If you're talking Music Radar, then yeah, that's a "crown" of sorts, but it's not an accurate representation of the market. I and you are not alone in the fact that we have always has at least one old school DAW around and one or more sequencer oriented DAW. It's no surprise that Logic and DP get Clips, it's a really useful feature.

I'm not saying that you're completely off the mark, but in terms of sales the numbers really haven't changed much. The top DAWs are PT, Logic, Cubase, Live and FL. None of them are going away anytime soon, and I would expect them all to take from each other, that's how it's been since the 90's. Where you're off is thinking it's a new phenomena. The market is bigger now, which is great, that's how Studio One, DP, Bitwig, Traction, Reaper, Reason, Samplitude, etc. etc. can stay around.

Let's discuss the DAW market right now (Logic, Studio One, FL Studio etc)