I never really understood this. You know there's whole slew of pretty sophisticated MIDI tools under F8?machinesworking wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pmI can't say I ever got used to the sequencer, DP and Logic are so much more advanced that way I never bothered quite honestly...
Let's discuss the DAW market right now (Logic, Studio One, FL Studio etc)
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
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- KVRAF
- 2989 posts since 5 Nov, 2014
Logic is quite capable DAW and to some degree one can really do quite a lot different stuff workarounding, there's tons of shortcuts and features under the hood, but still nothing really replaces straight out features, especially workflow developers had in mind for their DAW, that's where Bitwig shines, doesn't do as much as Logic, but what it is does, in most cases does in the most straightforward way.machinesworking wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pm I'm torn currently between Bitwig and Logic. Bitwig will probably win, but we will see.
Recently tried Logic 10.5 briefly and I was so into it for second, but than I started workarounding again and again when I tried to make some music, it all came back to me and again realized how cumbersome the workflow really is and how much I need to workaround again to actually do stuff I do in Bitwig easily... also find Logic's GUI unpleasant.
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- Banned
- 10729 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
I dont have access to any company sales figures, only chit chat on internet forums....basically factless gossip....
cant say I care which sells the most, or who uses what.... as long as my host keeps working for me, i keep working with it....
cant say I care which sells the most, or who uses what.... as long as my host keeps working for me, i keep working with it....
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
i loved the synths in reason but it was the sequencing that put me off. seemed so difficult to do what took seconds in orion/pt/cubarse.machinesworking wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pm I'm somewhere in the middle with Reason. I used it al the time from 1.0 to 2.5, forgot I even owned it, (thought I sold it actually), then jumped back in when they made a plug in out of it.
I can't say I ever got used to the sequencer, DP and Logic are so much more advanced that way I never bothered quite honestly, but the synths and samplers have a sound, it's a fantastic pad machine as a plug in, instant heavy layering etc. In general I look back and realize I got the most done in Logic or DP, limitations drive me nuts rather than inspire me.
I'm torn currently between Bitwig and Logic. Bitwig will probably win, but we will see.
was an early version, so may have changed a great deal
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
in fact, its this one! v4.
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machinesworking machinesworking https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8505 - KVRAF
- 8066 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle
Logic and DP, and Cubase for that matter, simply are far superior to the rest for doing pretty much everything MIDI and sync wise. SysEx, NRPN, SMPTE, MMC, MTC etc. etc. There are plenty of clunky awkward things in these DAWs compared to the modern ones, but if you're just looking at pure MIDI editing, filtering etc. they're top notch. Live and Bitwig don't even do SysEx really, or NRPN etc. DP and Logic both have extensive MIDI editing features from the last 30 odd years they've been around if you want to dive into it.antic604 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:34 pmI never really understood this. You know there's whole slew of pretty sophisticated MIDI tools under F8?machinesworking wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pmI can't say I ever got used to the sequencer, DP and Logic are so much more advanced that way I never bothered quite honestly...
Has nothing to do with whether or not a DAW is extremely useful or great etc. it's just feature sets from ages of development when they were MIDI sequencers only. Remember I'm comparing 2.5 Reason to 5 Logic etc. At this point it's the tiny GUI that keeps me away from exploring Reasons sequencer, and I'm only on 1080p monitors, can't imagine what a 4K would do to the interface!
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Heh, I don't even know what most of those mean, so no wonder I don't miss those features
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
sysex is when you do the making love with a robot.antic604 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:12 pmHeh, I don't even know what most of those mean, so no wonder I don't miss those features
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machinesworking machinesworking https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8505
- KVRAF
- 8066 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle
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machinesworking machinesworking https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8505
- KVRAF
- 8066 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle
Legit reply:antic604 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:12 pmHeh, I don't even know what most of those mean, so no wonder I don't miss those features
System Exclusive, Non Registered Parameter Numbers, Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers, MIDI Machine Control, and MIDI Time Code.
System Exclusive allows for any hardware synth that supports it to dump a patch directly into a song, NRPN is for MIDI outside of MIDI spec. SMPTE time code is a common sync method for film back before Quicktime and the like made it easy, MMC is what controls transports on DAWs outside of the Mackie protocol, MTC can act a lot like Rewire with DAWs that support it, syncing two DAWs etc.
Anyway, they're useful, Bitwig does MTC, Beat Clock and MMC at the moment for instance. Whether anyone in particular needs them is another story. I never use notation on DAWs that have it, glad it's still available for the people that do though.
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- KVRian
- 1030 posts since 15 Feb, 2005
midi ppq as well...i think most people dont realize how much the resolution of the midi engine can make a difference,...and how big a variability in midi ppq exists between DAWs.machinesworking wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:58 pm Logic and DP, and Cubase for that matter, simply are far superior to the rest for doing pretty much everything MIDI and sync wise. SysEx, NRPN, SMPTE, MMC, MTC etc. etc.
Music had a one night stand with sound design.....And the condom broke
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- KVRist
- 265 posts since 28 Feb, 2005 from Oz
Cubase Pro 10.5: Lets shoehorn every f**king feature ever to exist in to a cryptic eyesore of a GUI. The place where feature-rich means scouring endless YouTube videos to try and figure out how to actually accomplish anything.
Bitwig 3.2: Do you want to spend hours f**king around with modular devices and increasing complex modulation? Lose years of your life in a black hole of pointless tweaking that while fun produces remarkable little useable output.
Logic Pro X 10.5: See Cubase Pro 10.5. Cheap.
Ableton Live 10.1: Proof in software that developers shouldn't be allowed to ingest large quantities of benzodiazepine. Development of wanted features can only be described as glacial. If you want to enter a world of frustration then Live is for you.
Reason 10: We all hate f**king around with thousands of cables in a studio so why not replicate that in a DAW? You'll need an electron microscope to actually see any of the text or buttons but never mind because you'll give up after twenty minutes of using the actual DAW part anyway.
If I was given a DAW wish, it would be to merge Live and Bitwig and sprinkle in some Reason charm and maybe some Cubase mixing functionality then sell the whole lot at a Logic price.
Bitwig 3.2: Do you want to spend hours f**king around with modular devices and increasing complex modulation? Lose years of your life in a black hole of pointless tweaking that while fun produces remarkable little useable output.
Logic Pro X 10.5: See Cubase Pro 10.5. Cheap.
Ableton Live 10.1: Proof in software that developers shouldn't be allowed to ingest large quantities of benzodiazepine. Development of wanted features can only be described as glacial. If you want to enter a world of frustration then Live is for you.
Reason 10: We all hate f**king around with thousands of cables in a studio so why not replicate that in a DAW? You'll need an electron microscope to actually see any of the text or buttons but never mind because you'll give up after twenty minutes of using the actual DAW part anyway.
If I was given a DAW wish, it would be to merge Live and Bitwig and sprinkle in some Reason charm and maybe some Cubase mixing functionality then sell the whole lot at a Logic price.
Bitwig 6 // Reason 12 // Logic X // Soundtoys // U-he // FabFilter // Arturia // Elektron // Vintage Hardware
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- KVRAF
- 5575 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth
jarnold wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:18 am Cubase Pro 10.5: Lets shoehorn every f**king feature ever to exist in to a cryptic eyesore of a GUI. The place where feature-rich means scouring endless YouTube videos to try and figure out how to actually accomplish anything.
Bitwig 3.2: Do you want to spend hours f**king around with modular devices and increasing complex modulation? Lose years of your life in a black hole of pointless tweaking that while fun produces remarkable little useable output.
Logic Pro X 10.5: See Cubase Pro 10.5. Cheap.
Ableton Live 10.1: Proof in software that developers shouldn't be allowed to ingest large quantities of benzodiazepine. Development of wanted features can only be described as glacial. If you want to enter a world of frustration then Live is for you.
Reason 10: We all hate f**king around with thousands of cables in a studio so why not replicate that in a DAW? You'll need an electron microscope to actually see any of the text or buttons but never mind because you'll give up after twenty minutes of using the actual DAW part anyway.
If I was given a DAW wish, it would be to merge Live and Bitwig and sprinkle in some Reason charm and maybe some Cubase mixing functionality then sell the whole lot at a Logic price.
ABEFLGMOPPRRST 
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- KVRian
- 799 posts since 2 Nov, 2014
Have you tried Reaper?jarnold wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:18 am Cubase Pro 10.5: Lets shoehorn every f**king feature ever to exist in to a cryptic eyesore of a GUI. The place where feature-rich means scouring endless YouTube videos to try and figure out how to actually accomplish anything.
Bitwig 3.2: Do you want to spend hours f**king around with modular devices and increasing complex modulation? Lose years of your life in a black hole of pointless tweaking that while fun produces remarkable little useable output.
Logic Pro X 10.5: See Cubase Pro 10.5. Cheap.
Ableton Live 10.1: Proof in software that developers shouldn't be allowed to ingest large quantities of benzodiazepine. Development of wanted features can only be described as glacial. If you want to enter a world of frustration then Live is for you.
Reason 10: We all hate f**king around with thousands of cables in a studio so why not replicate that in a DAW? You'll need an electron microscope to actually see any of the text or buttons but never mind because you'll give up after twenty minutes of using the actual DAW part anyway.
If I was given a DAW wish, it would be to merge Live and Bitwig and sprinkle in some Reason charm and maybe some Cubase mixing functionality then sell the whole lot at a Logic price.
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
For the few people in the need of those...
Tbh the most (apart from the different timecode options) are relicts of the past, never worked well and never will but there are some who don´t want to let them go...