Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[BONES]

After 20 years of making music with hardware, I decided to explore the options with software in about 2000. I had no expectations or thoughts about where it might go, I just wanted to investigate the possibilities. I never seriously considered a hybrid set-up, I thought that if I couldn't get it all done in software then I may as well stick with hardware. The first thing I found that was interesting was Fruityloops v2, but it didn't yet support VST so you were limited in what you could do. It was an amusing distraction but not something I ever felt I could take seriously. OTOH, Orion showed from the first session I had with it that it could do everything I'd need to do to get our songs out of the Trinity and onto a HDD. I don't think I ever touched my hardware again after that transition period of getting all the songs into Orion. I still keep some around because I've always had some but I don't think I have turned any of my hardware instruments on in at least 6 months. That stuff doesn't hold any interest for me any more. It's much the same as the tools I use to work on my car/boat, the old SAE tools don't get any use since cars went to metric nuts and bolts.

My hardware feels similarly obsolete. It's the old way of doing things. It's a lot less productive because you spend so much of your time plugging things in and finding a good cable to use with the right plugs at each end and you waste days just trying to set it all up so that the things you need are within easy reach and you can't trip over the cables and you're not overloading any single power point and all that bullshit that has nothing at all to do with music. f**k that, I want to get shit done!

Anyone who thinks their hardware sounds better or is easier to work with or anything else is deluding themselves. It's none of those things. If, like me, you just like having a few hardware synths around, that's fine but admit that it is nothing more than a personal preference, that there is no objective advantage in working with hardware, you just like it. Nothing wrong with that, music is all about making us feel good so whatever floats your boat.

[revvy]

Love my HW, love my SW.

I'm very loving.

I also enjoy playing an instrument without turning on a computer so for me HW is essential in my enjoyment, it does something SW can't.

Of course, there are other advantages for SW over HW, I'm just considering one in the opposite direction that adds to my experience.

[FapFilter]

Trackers ,
How could I have forgotten

yes, i was surprised too

[Dunbar]

How can you be 100% in the box in the early 90's ???

I had an Amiga 500 running "Dynamic Drums" - which was Fruity Loops, essentially.
Dynamic Drums allowed the sequencing of samples, entirely 'in the box'.

The samples could be captured by the Amiga via a serial port sampling device (they were relatively cheap). Effects could be applied (not in real time, of course) in separate software (forgotten the name) and rendered to floppy.

I still have this complete 'in the box' audio production setup from 1988.

[whyterabbyt]

Q: Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?
A: Yes and no

I was 100% ITB from 1990 - 2018 (I wasn't making music that whole time - long breaks).

How can you be 100% in the box in the early 90's ???
You could only run midi sequencers back then

100% in the box was being done in the 50s. It was just a very big box.

[vurt]

Q: Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?
A: Yes and no

I was 100% ITB from 1990 - 2018 (I wasn't making music that whole time - long breaks).

How can you be 100% in the box in the early 90's ???
You could only run midi sequencers back then

100% in the box was being done in the 50s. It was just a very big box.

which lead to the ritual at every club, where the patrons all do the "big box, little box, big box, little box" dance to electronic musics for dancings.

[anomandaris1]

From what I have seen in the local shop, even some of the best (and most expensive) modern midi keyboard controllers are complete garbage compared to decent digital pianos and workstations.

Then you need to look in different shops. A lot of the actual keyboards are made by Fatar and it won't matter if it's in a hardware synth or a MIDI controller, you'll get the same experience. I'd also suggest that the keyboard in my KeyStep is just about the best keyboard I've ever used. The aftertouch is so much more nuanced and subtle than any of my hardware synths, which are basically on/off switches. Of course, a cheap controller is going to be made cheaply but if you spend decent money, you'll get something as good as any hardware keyboard.

Yamaha, Roland, Casio, Kawai don't use Fatar.
This statement is wrong: "Of course, a cheap controller is going to be made cheaply but if you spend decent money, you'll get something as good as any hardware keyboard."

(From what I have seen and I have read) there are simply NO good midi controllers on the market that are not 88 keys (and even these 88 keys that exist are with too heavy action or inferior velocity mechanics, compared to digital pianos - or organs, but I don't want to play on "authentic" clicky organ keys). (And I have no space for 88 keys piano)

I guess manufacturers know that most modern producers can't play and are focused on making cheap, plastic garbage with lots of faders and buttons and built-in arpeggiator...

Supposedly there are many good digital pianos even in the affordable price range, but they don't have mod and pitch wheel (until we cross into high-end price range), but again... who needs 88 keys for producing? Not me, I already have plenty of other gear around me - including few "alternative" design controllers - 49 (preferably) or 61 keys plus mod and pitch wheels without any faders, buttons and knobs can fit on my desk perfectly.

[dionenoid]

In short : Yes they did. I only keep a few hardware synths around for fun, and my Andromeda is in use as my midi keyboard

[s28]

No, I love the few software synths I use. I had some hardware in the past, sold it all off when leaving the country. Just got another small synth and I don't feel like I need it, but it's nice to have something a bit different to use and is inexpensive. I don't really see them opposing or that one would replace the other. Just different. Very content with just using my laptop which is a nice spot to be in.

[Stokely]

I love both hardware and software, for different reasons.

Long ago I worked in a couple studios that had an assortment of midi keyboards, modules and midi-capable effects units. It was a major PITA to set up a session, getting all your sounds loaded and patches set up (and patches saved when you modify them), and time-consuming. Obviously you have a lot of midi channels to worry about and all the cabling for both midi and audio.

I still twitch when thinking about setting up modules with those tiny screens for multi-timbral mode (e.g. TX81Z). Some were easier than others, the Emu Proteus for example was a breeze. Then you start hitting polyphony issues on part 4 of some module that's playing on channel 8, so you have to steal notes from some other part and now THAT one has polyphony issues! LOL I don't miss that stuff.

Cue the future, and now everything is on drop down menus and saved with the DAW project. There is no cabling, and I can mix down and "master" (with whatever feeble mastering skills I have) right to a digital file from the DAW. If you had told my late-80s self that this would be possible I'd have said you were watching too much Star Trek.

That said: I still use hardware live for the simplicity and robustness of it, and that I don't want to bring a laptop out to some dingy club where I play Skynyrd (hey I'm in FLA) and have to worry about it.

There is also an amazing vibe you get in a room full of hardware gear, especially analog synths with all the knobs and double especially if you have an old ARP2600 or something with patch cables I look at my "setup" now and while it has amazing power, it looks underwhelming to say the least!

Speaking of all those knobs, some of the most fun I ever had live was messing with my Virus, taking sounds and just changing them on the fly as the mood hit me. That takes more work to set up with software instruments but of course it is possible.

Sound-wise, I think software is great. I used a LOT of Repro and Diva on my last project and I don't think analog synths would have sounded much if any better once recorded....if they did, I can't see it would be a huge difference. Repro in particular just sounds killer if you are after a Prophet/Pro 1 sound of course. I was up to 28 tracks and hit some cpu issues (i had everything in HQ/divine mode of course LOL)--back in the day you would long since have had to record the audio due to not having enough midi channels or synth parts most likely. Then you get another awesome DAW convenience--freeze the tracks to take the burden off, and you still have the ability to go back and tweak later.

Having the fx in the computer is super-convenient also.

[gentleclockdivider]

Now if I was in a cave with music and computer hardware...I would wonder just how long it would take before the sea air would take effect and turn the PCB into a chocolate orange, a few days..a week.. humm I'm not sure...

Having been living on my yacht for more than 9 years now, I can tell you that it probably wouldn't affect the life of any of your electronics. I expected to have problems but nothing has died on me in all that time. Probably the oldest device I have is my ZuneHD - it's never missed a beat and even the cable it came with, which just sits on my nav table, is still going great. My Sony Bravia has been mounted on the bulkhead in the salon for more than 5 years and it's still good, too.

Expression. I now have created good sounds and they work well together. But I'm not using a keyboard. There are plugins for expression, I'm going to try those first. If I can't get close enough then I look for hw.

If you want expression, just use a controller. No hardware synth is going to come close to doing what a Roli Seaboard or Linnstrument can do.

I could have bought a car with what I’ve just spent on Eurorackery. It’s such fun. It’s so intense and it’s nearly unique.

I doubt it's anywhere near as intense or half as much fun as my car. You spent your money on the wrong thing.

The flagship wavetable engine I took delivery of yesterday has a serial number 1,736. That’s how many other people out there can make same sound. How many hundreds of thousands of Xfer Serums are there? How many million Omnispheres (when you count the unofficial ones)?

Who cares? Those things are just tools and no-one else can do what I do with the same tools.

In a world of instantly reproducible software instruments hardware is unique.

No it isn't. You said yourself - 1,736. My yacht is no. 168 of only 240 ever made (which is actually a pretty decent run for a yacht). It's an order of magnitude more unique than your wavetable engine. I use Monoment Bass a fair bit, do you think they've sold 1,736 licenses for that? I'd be very surprised and even if they did, I bet hardly anyone is actually using it so my software set-up is probably more unique than your hardware.

beautiful number of simple minds (play the cd's of the earlier simple minds, regurlaly).

That's not "early" Simple Minds, I'd call the end of their mid-period sound. This is early Simple Minds -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQYNLHb ... inds-Topic

Even though Dune sounds absolutely nothing like a Virus. And vice versa, of course (disclaimer for the ones I stepped on their shoes again).

So a Virus can't do synstrings or basslines? They are both synths, they both sound great and the areas of overlap would dwarf any ways in which they sound different.

I really wonder how many people ever said that their Minimoog replaced their Oberheim OB-X.

Given that Minimoog predates the OB-X by 9 years, I'd say nobody, But if it's the other way around, I'd suggest that pretty much anyone who had bought a Minimoog new would have jumped at the opportunity to replace an aging monosynth with an 8 voice polyphonic synth with an extra octave-and-a-half of keys.

There is a reason. The control surface of Roland System-8 is simply the best (for many). And the synth itself is the best (at least for me), despite being VA. Well, I shouldn’t say “despite”, cause good VA in good hands (relying not only on presets) sounds not less uniquely then A or a unique wavetable engine

Hard to imagine, given that it's a Roland. Horrible sounding things.

I still think I could probably remain 100% ITB if processor speeds pick up to the point where I can really run the stuff I want without issues, but I find that without some hardware synths and effects, I run out of processor speed.

What the hell are you doing? I can use several instances of bx-oberhausen and an ARP Osyssey or two my CPU never goes over about 50%.

Also, I think that hardware analogs do have a bit of magic that puts them ahead of the VA for some things.

Well, you're wrong.

In software its easier to sound different.

Is that important? I just want to sound good.

From what I have seen in the local shop, even some of the best (and most expensive) modern midi keyboard controllers are complete garbage compared to decent digital pianos and workstations.

Then you need to look in different shops. A lot of the actual keyboards are made by Fatar and it won't matter if it's in a hardware synth or a MIDI controller, you'll get the same experience. I'd also suggest that the keyboard in my KeyStep is just about the best keyboard I've ever used. The aftertouch is so much more nuanced and subtle than any of my hardware synths, which are basically on/off switches. Of course, a cheap controller is going to be made cheaply but if you spend decent money, you'll get something as good as any hardware keyboard.

Seriously not kidding , I ‘ve also lived on a sailboat for about 8 years , since 2017 I am now living in a real house ,the horror
I am now saving to get me either an old school nayad 380 or swan .
Nothing beats falling asleep and waking up on a sailboat , and everything in between

[vurt]

jokers

some people call me maurice.

*wolf whistle*

[GRUMP]

Imagine a modeled CR-78 Conga. It might be an Alternative, but I´d definitely prefer the Samples - for multiple Reasons and mainly the Color. The Original would just be a Sound Source here. That´s it.

All those Divas sound castrated if you ask me. But your Poly6 won´t remember anything anymore the next Day. OK there is this Presence and Consistence of analogue. But Omnispheres Presets should beat that in the End.

I mean - it´s really ambivalent. I wouldn´t waste my Space for HW anymore. But I hve just ordered a Midi Cable for the Virus from the Attic.

Maybe we should focus on Productivity and save the Time we waste in Debates and Comparisons.

Lately made a great Digi-Pad that reminded me of Phil collins and Tina Turner. I made a quick Comparison and fell asleep smiling afterwards - just like when I trialed a VA last Time. It´s a strange World and on you to make the best out of it.

[e-crooner]

From what I have seen in the local shop, even some of the best (and most expensive) modern midi keyboard controllers are complete garbage compared to decent digital pianos and workstations.

Then you need to look in different shops. A lot of the actual keyboards are made by Fatar and it won't matter if it's in a hardware synth or a MIDI controller, you'll get the same experience. I'd also suggest that the keyboard in my KeyStep is just about the best keyboard I've ever used. The aftertouch is so much more nuanced and subtle than any of my hardware synths, which are basically on/off switches. Of course, a cheap controller is going to be made cheaply but if you spend decent money, you'll get something as good as any hardware keyboard.

(From what I have seen and I have read) there are simply NO good midi controllers on the market that are not 88 keys (and even these 88 keys that exist are with too heavy action or inferior velocity mechanics, compared to digital pianos - or organs, but I don't want to play on "authentic" clicky organ keys). (And I have no space for 88 keys piano)

I guess manufacturers know that most modern producers can't play and are focused on making cheap, plastic garbage with lots of faders and buttons and built-in arpeggiator...

Supposedly there are many good digital pianos even in the affordable price range, but they don't have mod and pitch wheel (until we cross into high-end price range), but again... who needs 88 keys for producing? Not me, I already have plenty of other gear around me - including few "alternative" design controllers - 49 (preferably) or 61 keys plus mod and pitch wheels without any faders, buttons and knobs can fit on my desk perfectly.

I admit I am not a trained keyboard player, but frankly, I am quite happy with the quality of my Korg Microkey 2, its keys are a bit smaller, but compared to my old, broken Roland A-49 I actually prefer the Korg. The key mechanism is also pleasantly quiet. It was kind of expensive, though, after all it doesn't have any sliders, knobs etc, only octave up and down buttons, and the two wheels.
Velocity works fine, but there is no Aftertouch.

[deastman]

It’s in storage at the moment, but my favorite keyboard controller of all time for a the Kawai K5000s. It’s a Fatar keybed, semi-weighted with aftertouch, and a dream to play. I’m not sure what other instruments used that same keybed, but there must be a few.