Push 3 standalone coming in 2021?

[leeleema]

Rounik Sethi has crossed the line there methinks

[whyterabbyt]

A standalone Push3 would indeed replace Push1/2 as a controller in many setups, because it'd likely do everything that they can when tethered to a computer.

A non-standalone Push 3 would do the same thing. Ergo this is not evidence for a standalone Push3.

So that's true, but that's like saying Push2 should've ever been released, because Push1 was fine.

No, its not like saying that at all, that's a false statement.

Regarding Live, it's to be expected that a standalone Push3 will be less powerful than most laptops or desktops both in terms of CPU power, RAM amount and in terms of fine control you have over your project when using a proper screen, keyboard and mouse; so the use case for standalone Push3 will be different, e.g.:

You've got that the wrong way round. A use case defines the specification, its not the specification that defines the use case.

1) You use Push3 outside of the studio to draft tracks, capture quick ideas, experiment when you have time but can't access your main setup. THEN you move the project to the real thing to elaborate on it and finish it

Anyone can use a laptop, Live and controller outside of the studio to do the exact same thing. And people already do.
So being able to do something that can already be done with Live is a failed argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

2) You actually work in Live on a laptop/desktop with Push3 as a controller, but when you want to perform outside live you "dumb down" your project by bouncing CPU/RAM heavy stuff and are able to play the project standalone

Anyone can use a laptop, Live and controller to do the exact same thing. And people already do.
So being able to do something that can already be done with Live is a failed argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

In both of those cases you actually NEED Live laptop/desktop software and Push3 doubles as a controller. This is exactly how MPC or M+ work and how many use them.

That's not an argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

And if someone decides to get Push3 instead of Live+Push2, they probably would never get the latter anyway (the whole DAWless crowd), so actually Ableton opens themselves to a new market, too.

And you can prove that Ableton's market share of that audience would be large enough to make it worth Ableton building a product that competes with Live instead of complementing it? You can prove that it wouldnt cannibalise Live sales to a significant level?

You know, actual evidence. Enough to be 'obvious', as you claimed, not just speculation.

[excuse me please]

Technically, Ask dot com has spreaded fake news to lure people to their site. The Ableton guys gonna have a word - or already have - with Ask dot com, I assume. No matter the joke, it's bad for business.

[vurt]

Technically, Ask dot com has spreaded fake news to lure people to their site. The Ableton guys gonna have a word - or already have - with Ask dot com, I assume. No matter the joke, it's bad for business.

yup, cheers for tanking the push 2 sales guys

[excuse me please]

PS the bad genius behind this is that they first show a geniune pic of Push2 in the article, so it is understandable why people are confused. They probably won't expect such dirty tricks from Ask dot com. Why should they? It's supposed to be an educative site... dum dum dum nice ad.

[leeleema]

Rounik: all site visits are good visits. To Ableton lawyers: I thought it was real. You're asking me who sent me the information? Someone anonymously. Right, I'll take down.

[leeleema]

Down in maybe a week. If Ableton can be bothered

[machinesworking]

What I find weird is people are arguing that it's fake, that it would compete with Live etc. when Maschine+ does exactly the same thing.

The best argument against Push 3 being stand alone is simple really, Live is easily one of the most CPU intensive DAWs out there, consider the stretch algorithms etc. I simply do not think anyone wants to go back to 2008 or so CPU levels with Live. Plus there's the matter of all the included third party developed plug ins, AAS etc. How does Max 4 Live fit into this?

I seriously doubt Live will ever go stand alone, too much work, too little pay off. Push 3 with an audio card makes sense though.

[antic604]

No, according to me the story is that you directed a fake pic (as obvious as a fake pic could be FYI) from ask dot com here and THEN asked if there will be a st1 Push3, while the matter is irrelevant. NB As ABLETON has CONFIRMED. They did deny.

Still.. you think there is some CONSPIRACY behind this.. right? Well... afaik there is NO CONSPIRACY. Wowie zowie, I'd say.

Ableton only said they don't recognise the picture and that they didn't release it - that does NOT mean Push3 isn't coming.

I never said there's a conspiracy, either. Ableton's working on Push3 for sure (whether it's standalone or not) and ask.audio just thought to capitalise on recent news about M+ to draw some traffic to their website. Those 2 things are completely unrelated.

[vurt]

well it doesnt take much to work out push 3 would be next. after push 2 n all

so yes, there, you are probably correct, there is going to be a push 3, at some point in the future.

[DJ Warmonger]

It is very likely Push 3 will come out eventually, and it's likely it will have extra features to match current competition - Maschine and MPC. But this is all blind guess we could do before and the "leak" makes us no wiser.

[mcnelson]

As far as I know, this hit Reddit before Ask got hold of it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/commen ... l_or_fake/

You can't blame Ask.audio for jumping on it; IIRC, Push2 was leaked shortly before the reveal as well.

[Fernando Carvalho]

This was the most obvious and ugly fake I have ever seen.
If Ableton someday makes an standalone machine I expect something different to the Push, something more proper for playing live. That was Ableton Live at the beginning, a software for playing live, and it was revolutionary. If they make standalone hardware I think they will go in that direction, hardware for playing live better than anything until now.

[SLiC]

I would bet my studio that Ableton ARE working on a PUSH 3...maybe it will be stand alone, maybe it will be MPE, maybe it will have an audio card, but PUSH has been a major product for Ableton and its due a refresh, I think we will see one soon...

Push 1 was made in partnership with Akai (2013)
Push 2 is 100% Ableton= (late 2015)

Its been 5 years since PUSH 2, that quite a long time for a tech product....but PUSH just controls Live, and Live, so unless Live adds something really new (like MPE)_ maybe they don't think people will upgrade.

[antic604]

Thanks for engaging in the actual discussion

A standalone Push3 would indeed replace Push1/2 as a controller in many setups, because it'd likely do everything that they can when tethered to a computer.

A non-standalone Push 3 would do the same thing. Ergo this is not evidence for a standalone Push3.

Yes, you're right obviously! But since this thread is about potential standalone Push3 I focused on that.

So that's true, but that's like saying Push2 should've ever been released, because Push1 was fine.

No, its not like saying that at all, that's a false statement.

I can see your point - you make a distinction between non-standalone Push3 as a continuation of their current business; and potential standalone Push3 as competing with that model. I don't agree with that characterisation, as it seems arbitraty to me, but OK.

Regarding Live, it's to be expected that a standalone Push3 will be less powerful than most laptops or desktops both in terms of CPU power, RAM amount and in terms of fine control you have over your project when using a proper screen, keyboard and mouse; so the use case for standalone Push3 will be different, e.g.:

You've got that the wrong way round. A use case defines the specification, its not the specification that defines the use case.

Again, that's great point in principle, but it sort of nullifies your "internal competition" claim. If Ableton wanted to REALLY compete with Live+Push, they'd have to release a powerful Push3 that can run the same amount of VSTs & tracks that a good PC/Mac can and provides the same level of control as keyboard+mouse. How big & heavy it would have to be? How hot and/or loud it would run? And most importantly - how much would it cost?? Instead, we can expect a rather modest but reasonable CPU & RAM situation + a limited control features (like Push2 currently), so that it doesn't compete with Live+Push while also provides a solution for group of people that want a portable, standalone experience and are willing to sacrifice some of the performance & ease of use for that.

YOU might not want it, but many people will.

1) You use Push3 outside of the studio to draft tracks, capture quick ideas, experiment when you have time but can't access your main setup. THEN you move the project to the real thing to elaborate on it and finish it

Anyone can use a laptop, Live and controller outside of the studio to do the exact same thing. And people already do.
So being able to do something that can already be done with Live is a failed argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

2) You actually work in Live on a laptop/desktop with Push3 as a controller, but when you want to perform outside live you "dumb down" your project by bouncing CPU/RAM heavy stuff and are able to play the project standalone

Anyone can use a laptop, Live and controller to do the exact same thing. And people already do.
So being able to do something that can already be done with Live is a failed argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

In both of those cases you actually NEED Live laptop/desktop software and Push3 doubles as a controller. This is exactly how MPC or M+ work and how many use them.

That's not an argument for a device which competes with Live instead of complementing it.

It's hard to argue with that, since it follows our fundamental disagreement what standalone Push3 means for Ableton's core business - for you it competes with it, for me it complements & expands it to new audience.

As I said, I don't see laptop + Push2 as "standalone" and "portable" solution. I'm not gonna take in on a couch, on a balcony, on a holiday trip, quickly pull it up and record an idea between waking up & going to work, etc. Perhaps YOU would and that's why you don't see a market for it, but that does not mean there isn't one

And if someone decides to get Push3 instead of Live+Push2, they probably would never get the latter anyway (the whole DAWless crowd), so actually Ableton opens themselves to a new market, too.

And you can prove that Ableton's market share of that audience would be large enough to make it worth Ableton building a product that competes with Live instead of complementing it? You can prove that it wouldnt cannibalise Live sales to a significant level?

You know, actual evidence. Enough to be 'obvious', as you claimed, not just speculation.

And do YOU have any factual evidence there's no such market out there? Other than you know - anectodal evidence based on what you think

For some reason devices like MPCs (it's difficult to buy One or Live Mk2), Deluge, MC-707 sell really well and announcement of M+ sparked a huge hype and avalanche of pre-orders.