Does anyone know where there are some great articles or how-to's on the net about using midi to create realistic real-world music?
I'm looking for techniques to program accoustic guitar rythms, electric guitar leads, power chords etc...
I'm also looking for other instruments, such as strings, wind instruments - you name it, I'm looking for it.
Any help/links would be appreciated.
I will consider buying a resource if it's truly magnificent.
Please don't suggest to download some midi files and learn from them. I will look at this also but I'm really looking for written theory and practical tutorials at the moment.
Caleb
Midi for reality
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
?? i'd suggest thinking about it.. strums have note order, wind instruments have varying loudness.. the more you know about playing the instrument, the better you can emulate it. tha said, i don't think i've seen a lot of articles that really describe what happens when you'e playing..
but we can talk about it :p when i was makng a midi strummer, it was pointed out to me by rene to include a feature for muted strums, where the hand mutes some of the strings but not others.. so you'd sequence that eg. by having only your lower notes sustained :p somethnig i'd not have thought of (btw i didn't institute the feature in present release so not 'exiting')
beyond that, emulaiton in a 'primitive' setting like electronic composition is one of those jury rig things.. chances are you don't have the provisions to really 'do what actually happens,' but when emulating (which is ~like what i do) you get these situations where some arbitrary thing you do in sequencing resembles a physical sound, like a happy accident, but has nothnig to do w/ it.. (as an example, say you accidentally put a midi not 2 octaves too low and it sounds like trumpet growl on the patch.. "it shouldn't, but it does" sorta thing)
but we can talk about it :p when i was makng a midi strummer, it was pointed out to me by rene to include a feature for muted strums, where the hand mutes some of the strings but not others.. so you'd sequence that eg. by having only your lower notes sustained :p somethnig i'd not have thought of (btw i didn't institute the feature in present release so not 'exiting')
beyond that, emulaiton in a 'primitive' setting like electronic composition is one of those jury rig things.. chances are you don't have the provisions to really 'do what actually happens,' but when emulating (which is ~like what i do) you get these situations where some arbitrary thing you do in sequencing resembles a physical sound, like a happy accident, but has nothnig to do w/ it.. (as an example, say you accidentally put a midi not 2 octaves too low and it sounds like trumpet growl on the patch.. "it shouldn't, but it does" sorta thing)
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
Not sure how helpful this is, but two books you might be interested in are Machine Musicianship by Robert Rowe or Virtual Music: Computer Synthesis of Musical Style by David Cope.
You might find some leads from Mr. Cope's home page.
You might find some leads from Mr. Cope's home page.
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- KVRist
- 113 posts since 30 Oct, 2004
I don't know of any how-tos online, but here are a few tricks I've learned:
Electric guitars often make an audible (though quiet) sound when you lift your finger off the fret. You can simulate this in midi by putting a short, quiet repeat note after each note in the guitar track. I mean immediately after, so the two notes will basically appear to be touching each other in the Midi sequencer's piano roll view. This emphasises the release of the note, which is sometimes an important element of the rhythm.
Experiment with sometimes putting very short (1/32) notes just before (1/64) the start of wind/brass notes, but a tone (edit: semitone) above or below. This simulates a player not quite hitting the note first time (either on purpose or by accident), makes the attack more interesting, and gives the instrument a bit more character.
Similarly, you can also put a brief run of descending, fading notes after a brass phrase, to simulate the note falling off as the player stops blowing (at least I think that's what it is - I don't play brass...)
Electric guitars often make an audible (though quiet) sound when you lift your finger off the fret. You can simulate this in midi by putting a short, quiet repeat note after each note in the guitar track. I mean immediately after, so the two notes will basically appear to be touching each other in the Midi sequencer's piano roll view. This emphasises the release of the note, which is sometimes an important element of the rhythm.
Experiment with sometimes putting very short (1/32) notes just before (1/64) the start of wind/brass notes, but a tone (edit: semitone) above or below. This simulates a player not quite hitting the note first time (either on purpose or by accident), makes the attack more interesting, and gives the instrument a bit more character.
Similarly, you can also put a brief run of descending, fading notes after a brass phrase, to simulate the note falling off as the player stops blowing (at least I think that's what it is - I don't play brass...)
Last edited by lo3q on Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
nice release tip 
i don't play brass either, but sequencing it, first i'd put very short lead-in notes a semitone or two up or down, sorta like a tonguing effect, and as i sequenced, i'd play eg. a 2m loop of the sequence, making slight adjustments, and sometimes by clicknig on a note it'd sound at the 'wrong place' in the loop but would sound good superimposed..
so then i started putting say quiet notes in rests or run-ins that were way off, and imo it sounds like sax i hear, perhaps moving fingering positions. oc with an extensive knowledge of sax fingering, you'd know which notes were similar, which is imo probably a bit cumbersome to translate to a non-sax player.
i don't play brass either, but sequencing it, first i'd put very short lead-in notes a semitone or two up or down, sorta like a tonguing effect, and as i sequenced, i'd play eg. a 2m loop of the sequence, making slight adjustments, and sometimes by clicknig on a note it'd sound at the 'wrong place' in the loop but would sound good superimposed..so then i started putting say quiet notes in rests or run-ins that were way off, and imo it sounds like sax i hear, perhaps moving fingering positions. oc with an extensive knowledge of sax fingering, you'd know which notes were similar, which is imo probably a bit cumbersome to translate to a non-sax player.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for the advice so far.
xoxos - your opinions and experiences on these things are always welcome.
I suppose I should explain why I'm looking for such information from random scattered directions.
First, I want to profit from the knowledge in my own compositions. Chances are I'm not going to be able to throw real players in my music most of the time so I'm left with clever midi programming.
Secondly, I would like to write a book on these techniques at some point so that other people can profit from any knowledge I've gained. I didn't mention that at the start because I'm certainly leaving it to my own discretion as to whether I'll actually complete such a project or not.
It just seems to me that there's tonnes of info on how to do most things - compose, play, record, mix, master, sound design (synthesis), effects etc... but actually making the most of midi doesn't seem to be such a prolific topic which surprises me a little.
So I guess I'm trying to collect as many resources I can, learn from them and then maybe start to document the techniques for others to use.
Hope this kind of makes sense.
Caleb
xoxos - your opinions and experiences on these things are always welcome.
I suppose I should explain why I'm looking for such information from random scattered directions.
First, I want to profit from the knowledge in my own compositions. Chances are I'm not going to be able to throw real players in my music most of the time so I'm left with clever midi programming.
Secondly, I would like to write a book on these techniques at some point so that other people can profit from any knowledge I've gained. I didn't mention that at the start because I'm certainly leaving it to my own discretion as to whether I'll actually complete such a project or not.
It just seems to me that there's tonnes of info on how to do most things - compose, play, record, mix, master, sound design (synthesis), effects etc... but actually making the most of midi doesn't seem to be such a prolific topic which surprises me a little.
So I guess I'm trying to collect as many resources I can, learn from them and then maybe start to document the techniques for others to use.
Hope this kind of makes sense.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for this tip.Hengy wrote:you could try
Handbook of Midi Sequencing, Dave Clackett
i've got a copy and it's ok for the basics, covers tricks to emulate playing styles for most instruments
I've found it on Amazon - used only. But that's OK.
Strangely enough in Amazon it says its list price is $17.95 and its used price is $44.00.
A bit odd.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRist
- 113 posts since 30 Oct, 2004
Well, obviously you should buy a new one and sell it immediately. Repeat until wealthy.Strangely enough in Amazon it says its list price is $17.95 and its used price is $44.00
Here's another midi tip (obvious one really): Guitar strumming upstroke will usually be weaker, therefore quieter, than downstroke.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Yeah - guitar strumming is actually quite difficult.
I tried to conceptualise it in the past with how you would actually do it in real life.
First of all you've got to know which notes you're likely to hit. That's probably a big mistake people make from the start.
So I picture the chords and work out for each string which notes would be played. And then you don't necessarily play all of them. For a few chords you don't necessarily hit the bottom note(s).
Additionally, with the upstroke you wouldn't often hit all the notes either - probably the highest four notes of the chords at most.
But then you would want to introduce some randomness over several bars where sometimes you hit the bottom notes - sometimes you don't.
Sustain of notes is another one - as mentioned previously, the bottom notes often have a longer duration than the top 4 notes of most chords. There's alot of muting madness that goes on where notes are cut short etc...
Then there's small things where you'd want a bit of a percussive noise on the strings if emulating strumming with a pick or perhaps a little low cut filter is playing with the fingers.
And then there's the various fret noises when changing from one chord to another. This is probably better handled by having a separate track pointing to a different set of samples just of fret noises.
And this is just for very regular and boring strums, quite often rythm guitar mixes many elements of strumming, picking etc to make complicated rythmic accompaniments.
Lead guitar parts you're looking at pitch bend and vibrato as mandatory elements. Usually I'd try and built the vibrato into the patch itself with the amount triggered by a controller and pitch bend should be used liberally.
Of course another thing about lead parts is that there is a certain level of mechanics to picking the right lead melody - but that's more a composition element rather than a midi technique.
I think the more tips the better as far as I'm concerned if people have some real know-how as in any case I'd like to collect the data in one place to sift through it and put it in some coherent order.
Caleb
I tried to conceptualise it in the past with how you would actually do it in real life.
First of all you've got to know which notes you're likely to hit. That's probably a big mistake people make from the start.
So I picture the chords and work out for each string which notes would be played. And then you don't necessarily play all of them. For a few chords you don't necessarily hit the bottom note(s).
Additionally, with the upstroke you wouldn't often hit all the notes either - probably the highest four notes of the chords at most.
But then you would want to introduce some randomness over several bars where sometimes you hit the bottom notes - sometimes you don't.
Sustain of notes is another one - as mentioned previously, the bottom notes often have a longer duration than the top 4 notes of most chords. There's alot of muting madness that goes on where notes are cut short etc...
Then there's small things where you'd want a bit of a percussive noise on the strings if emulating strumming with a pick or perhaps a little low cut filter is playing with the fingers.
And then there's the various fret noises when changing from one chord to another. This is probably better handled by having a separate track pointing to a different set of samples just of fret noises.
And this is just for very regular and boring strums, quite often rythm guitar mixes many elements of strumming, picking etc to make complicated rythmic accompaniments.
Lead guitar parts you're looking at pitch bend and vibrato as mandatory elements. Usually I'd try and built the vibrato into the patch itself with the amount triggered by a controller and pitch bend should be used liberally.
Of course another thing about lead parts is that there is a certain level of mechanics to picking the right lead melody - but that's more a composition element rather than a midi technique.
I think the more tips the better as far as I'm concerned if people have some real know-how as in any case I'd like to collect the data in one place to sift through it and put it in some coherent order.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRian
- 1171 posts since 21 Feb, 2004
This demo video of Trilogy has some good bass emulation advice,I don't have the Trilogy or a good bass sample library but I like the way the articulations and different playing styles are mapped out.
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... _demo.html
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... _demo.html