IKs MixBox

[jamcat]

WHY OH WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CORPORATIONS???!!!???

Perhaps you should open a poll in the DSP and Plug-in Development forum and ask how many developers consider themselves to be rich corporations.

[Gamma-UT]

That's a curious deflection given that your original claim was that the EU is somehow anti-business in general.

It would probably help if you read and understood the UsedSoft vs Oracle ruling as you might have asked yourself that IK is genuinely worried about this ruling, why does it charge for licence transfers? Reasonable remuneration for download is one of the requirements for licence resale under the ECJ's general principles of resale. We have to assume IK considers it reasonable remuneration considering it sets the charge in the first place.

[stech9]

You purchase permission from someone to use their intellectual property.
You cannot sell permission granted to you by someone to someone else... (PQ)

How do we then allow for passing along of software to those that come after? If my understanding of the issue is correct, I can leave my niece my computer yet not the software.

I still run older computers and see no reason to discontinue their use. In an odd way it is pleasant to not have to concern myself with updates. Of course some tasks, like going online, are prohibitive.

I always hoped that operating systems would allow for a software dedication option after bios. I am not taking OS optimization for audio programs. I wanted OS minimization tailored to audio programs, audio and display.

Thinking along those lines, I was excited to put MixBox in play as a virtual 500 series rack on another computer. I have a second computer with an studio worthy PCI audio card. In theory it should be a good fit. Much cheaper than a real 500 series rack. Latency is making a mockery of me attempting to track live instruments. I was thinking it would reduce resource usage on the recording computer (one can always record effected and DI to ensure post recording has options). Anyone have a suggestion? Am I barking up the wrong tree. Pro Tools has I/O and Studio One has Pipeline. MixBox at first glance should be a good fit.

[jamcat]

That's a curious deflection given that your original claim was that the EU is somehow anti-business in general.

It would probably help if you read and understood the UsedSoft vs Oracle ruling as you might have asked yourself that IK is genuinely worried about this ruling, why does it charge for licence transfers? Reasonable remuneration for download is one of the requirements for licence resale under the ECJ's general principles of resale. We have to assume IK considers it reasonable remuneration considering it sets the charge in the first place.

I said it was anti-IP. Because it is. Nothing to do with business.

Some developers may want to allow for licensees to transfer their licenses to other individuals. I can think of a few reasons they might. For a small developer particularly, they may calculate that the increase in sales they get from customers feeling like their purchase is low-commitment outweighs the lost revenue from said license transfers. In other words, more people may like the idea of selling their license than actually do it.

I cannot speak for IK to tell you why they do what they do. Perhaps it is because selling license transfers gives them additional real income and also full control over the process.

What developers who want to allow license transfers of their IP and developers who don't all have in common is they all want to be the ones to make that choice and set their own policies. The ECJ ruling deprives all of them of that.

[Gamma-UT]

All that shows is you have no idea what actually happened in the case. After the initial ECJ ruling, which carries a number of conditions - one I outlined above - UsedSoft eventually threw in the towel because it couldn't prove they applied in this case.

I don't know why you suddenly feel you can't speak for IK given that you waded in as though you knew the reason for the time limitation.

However, you might want to get your news from different sources - the ones you're using (and you've made the job of guessing pretty easy) are not exactly reliable.

I said it was anti-IP. Because it is. Nothing to do with business.

This BTW is priceless. It's mind boggling you managed to argue yourself into that position. Do the intellectual gymnastics not hurt?

[jamcat]

One of the conditions is that it must be a perpetual license, which is why we are now seeing time-limits placed on software licenses. That is the real-world effect of the ruling. What is mind boggling is that you are apparently trying to argue that they are unrelated.

[Gamma-UT]

One of the conditions is that it must be a perpetual license, which is why we are now seeing time-limits placed on software licenses. That is the real-world effect of the ruling. What is mind boggling is that you are apparently trying to argue that they are unrelated.

Make your mind up. Do you know why IK has put a time limit on or not?

Because they use C/R copy protection - no point in having a perpetual licence if it can't get authorised in the future.

[stech9]

Perhaps it is because selling license transfers gives them additional real income and also full control over the process. (PQ)

Ah ah, it is beginning to make sense why the pimp was so upset. Called into work early, friend shows up at the door... oh well long story.

How does this apply to software in the case where they are selling used stuff. Has anybody seen the MixBox modules, they look used?

[stech9]

Because they use C/R copy protection - no point in having a perpetual licence if it can't get authorised in the future. (PQ)

That is the reason I am a big fan of license per system/computer. This way when a new owner takes over the company, they acquire the system and the license. It also makes it easier to give your child what you invested in.

When I was a kid, I was given old clothes worn by others. I didn't complain. Well once my aunt did when I showed up wearing a hand-me down 'Kiss" t-shirt.

Have we really come to the point that old is not useful (I can hear Mr. Biden saying "C'mon Man")? As most hardware these days has a software component, this area of law must apply as well. The world is turning into a cell-phone plan. Obsolescence and pay as you go. All tickets must be used before the end of the ride.

[vurt]

Because they use C/R copy protection - no point in having a perpetual licence if it can't get authorised in the future. (PQ)

That is the reason I am a big fan of license per system/computer. This way when a new owner takes over the company, they acquire the system and the license. It also makes it easier to give your child what you invested in.

When I was a kid, I was given old clothes worn by others. I didn't complain. Well once my aunt did when I showed up wearing a hand-me down 'Kiss" t-shirt.

Have we really come to the point that old is not useful (I can hear Mr. Biden saying "C'mon Man")? As most hardware these days has a software component, this area of law must apply as well. The world is turning into a cell-phone plan. Obsolescence and pay as you go. All tickets must be used before the end of the ride.

life is like a freak show
nobody laughs when they leave.

[jamcat]

Because they use C/R copy protection - no point in having a perpetual licence if it can't get authorised in the future. (PQ)

That is the reason I am a big fan of license per system/computer. This way when a new owner takes over the company, they acquire the system and the license. It also makes it easier to give your child what you invested in.

When I was a kid, I was given old clothes worn by others. I didn't complain. Well once my aunt did when I showed up wearing a hand-me down 'Kiss" t-shirt.

Have we really come to the point that old is not useful (I can hear Mr. Biden saying "C'mon Man")? As most hardware these days has a software component, this area of law must apply as well. The world is turning into a cell-phone plan. Obsolescence and pay as you go. All tickets must be used before the end of the ride.

The law is different when hardware and software is inseparable. When the software is necessary for the hardware to be operable, and the software's only purpose is to operate the hardware, then the software is considered part of the physical object and is transferred with it. A computer operating system falls under this.

[stech9]

The law is different when hardware and software is inseparable. When the software is necessary for the hardware to be operable, and the software's only purpose is to operate the hardware, then the software is considered part of the physical object and is transferred with it. A computer operating system falls under this.

Thanks for that.

Well the law is the law and reasonable folk will work within its parameters.
[Post edited as it was off topic - I will research deeper into this ruling intentions & implications.]

[stech9]

Very interesting how two threads on the same topic took off in different directions. I did a search of what was being said about "MixBox" online.

A lot of it is marketing. Let's be real, when a user post a video about a product, rarely is it more than marketing. I appreciate marketing, yet let's please be real. Companies have been encouraging this for years (hey ho Dorito [DORITOS is a trademark of Frito-Lay North America, Inc.. Filed in August 23 (2017)] fans, make a video about your favourite flavour...). I am beginning to think that is what some forums have become, marketing.

This thread went legal. I have found it enlightening and interesting. It seems a thread on GearSlutz went bacon.

In that thread one sees how easily derailed a discussion can become; when parties become more interested in promotion (pro and con) rather than facts. From the outside one senses certain sensitivities among the posts. No one wants to accept the possibility that maybe long time product users are frustrated; instead of improving existing products, a new one was released (plugin addiction anyone). From that post one can see how long it took the company man to acknowledge an issue [there are plenty of possible good reasons for this: bad day/week, toeing the company line, preventing escalation]. I guess I find that curious, in that MixBox is heavy on the GUI (personal experience - maybe the program was not meant to be run on a Commodore). Thus it is a big part of the experience (otherwise why would the product devout so much resource to it).

I thank Ryan_IK for keeping his head on straight in this forum (kinda funny as I did see a disparaging reference to KVR on page 7 by the company man there). I found Ryan_IK's participation very helpful and encouraging.

I also thank the minds here who kept the posts real, fun and an enjoyable learning experience.

Well that is probably more than you wanted read, I apologize. Back to MixBox. I am enjoying the application. The force is strong with this one.

Stay kind and don't be afraid to be wise...
May the tone be with you!

[stech9]

It is so easy to like the IK Multimedia founders: Interview Date: January 16, 2020 NAMM Oral History Program - Enrico Iori founded IK Multimedia in 1996 with his friend and partner Davide Barbi

[Ryan_IK]

@stech9 Thanks! There have been some great points brought up in this thread and some good comments on the sounds and features. I hope to see the thread keeping going, discussing everything musically.

Update for you guys, the update will be coming shortly, hopefully this week. Stay tuned.

In the meantime, check out this in-depth video from Zo.