Avenger vs. Rapid

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I tried both and was impressed in many ways by both. I eventually bought Avenger because I could test it fully on my own music, and the demo restrictions of RAPID made it impossible to fully try out to see if it would work in the way that I want to.
Two of the selling points of RAPID are its eight layers and the ability to create patches of your own quickly. The demo only allows two layers, so I have no idea if eight layers would really work well together or differently from other multi layer synths that I have. Twenty minutes is not enough time to build a complex layer from scratch and then use it to create even a short track.

This synth has a lot of potential. I think its current price is right for what it is, but it goes up in two weeks. I implore the dev to provide a demo that allows us to see its true capabilities.

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Coockie1176ln wrote: Patcher is a patcher not a plugin but a routing option within fl studio as a alternative window how to route things.
You use plugins within that window. not same as have a large set of effects in one plugin, workflow difference.
Your knowledge about Patcher is close to none and with some basic tools in FL Studio.
Patcher is not a static thing in which you just shove synths and effects because you can create control interface by inserting knobs, sliders, xy controller and buttons to shape and sculpt the sound by routing
parameters of synths and effects to them.

Let's say you insert 5 Sylenths, you can assign Cutoff to one knob in Patcher to control Cutoff of all 5 instances, or you can assign completely different parameters to one knob, so when you twist it or in the end automate it in playlist, it affects different parameters of all synths or effects.
You are obviously not aware of this.
Patcher is just an option for routing so there is a difference. I prefer having great workflow in one plugin instead off the trouble of routing outside and not being able to use lfo from another plugin to another oscillator on another plugin, thats not possible you need peakcontroller for that. very irrelevant comparing a synth to routing options in a daw offered
FL Studio's Peak Controller used in Patcher:
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you can route whatever parameter you want from synths to it and you can route every single knob in Peak Controller to knob to control it:

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you can route all parameters to one knob and not only that, you can route 20 parameters from all synths to just that one knob.

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and you can insert 500 knobs if you want to, to sculpt the sound and then you can automate them in playlist

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Because of not knowing the most basic things about Patcher you see it as a place in which you just shove synths and effects, but because you can assign synth's parameters to Patcher's controls, Patcher acts as one gigantic modular synth which can be consisted of any number of synths and effects you own.

Now, since Parawave was trumpeting here how it's difficult to work that way in DAW's, which was the main reason I wrote my first post here, let's see, again:
parawave wrote: One big point is the whole mindset that comes with layers.
Yes, a big point FL Studio had for the last 10 years called Layer and for the last 5 years called Patcher.
parawave wrote: Of course, in most DAWSs you can redirect your note sequence to different plugin instances. Route every instance into different mixer channels and then use additional sends together with delays, verbs and gated volume automations. But isn't that kind of tedious?
Not with Patcher.
parawave wrote: Especially if you want to save that setup an reuse it later.
Whatever you did in Patcher can be saved as preset.
parawave wrote: If you use Rapid, you shift most of these problems into a single plugin window.
Just like you do with Patcher.
A plugin setup that normally requires multiple buses and fx plugins is now entirely created within Rapid. That means, quick save and quick copy/paste without bothering about the mixer setup.
Exactly like in Patcher.

For someone to convince me that Rapid is a must have because of its 8 layers he must to convince me that Rapid's one layer is better than Dune1, Dune2, Diva, Massive, Serum, Harmor, Harmless, Sytrus, Granite, Kontakt, ArcSyn, Helix and bunch of other synths I own, because I can mix all of them in Patcher or just use FL Studio's Layer.
The only reasonable and meaningful argument you can come up with is: Bro, you need another toy.

I'm NOT saying that Rapid is a bad synth, I'm saying that its one of the biggest selling points, which is having 8 layers, is practically useless to me, that's all.

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brainzistor wrote: I'm NOT saying that Rapid is a bad synth, I'm saying that its one of the biggest selling points, which is having 8 layers, is practically useless to me, that's all.
I am a long time FL Studio user and Patcher fanatic and i agree almost completely with you.
However, patcher has it's limitations.

no duplicating (of complete set-ups for instance), no multi-cable drag and drop and it is an extra layer (more screens is less efficient).

I'd rather see a nice and complete synth, then that i have to "remake" every synth i have in a patcher set-up in order to get some "basic" functionality.

Again, big patcher fan over here (hell, i just finished an 8 voice Repro-1 patch (fully functioning)), but it is not the whole story.

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exmatproton wrote:
brainzistor wrote: I'm NOT saying that Rapid is a bad synth, I'm saying that its one of the biggest selling points, which is having 8 layers, is practically useless to me, that's all.
I am a long time FL Studio user and Patcher fanatic and i agree almost completely with you.
However, patcher has it's limitations.

no duplicating (of complete set-ups for instance), no multi-cable drag and drop and it is an extra layer (more screens is less efficient).

I'd rather see a nice and complete synth, then that i have to "remake" every synth i have in a patcher set-up in order to get some "basic" functionality.

Again, big patcher fan over here (hell, i just finished an 8 voice Repro-1 patch (fully functioning)), but it is not the whole story.
i think so too, i mean you can do a synth with even more layers. but with all our DAW's you just copy the instance and you got another layer.
i want a great sound, flexibility etc. maybe up to 4 layers are more than enough.
only for live players maybe this is something interesting, but many dont even play live anymore but let a playlist play lol
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A layer feature was never a reason for me to buy a softsynth or not. Rapid is a fine synth, but nothing super special. If the price will grow up to 200 bucks again no one will buy it. I think we will see an 404 error page as parawaves homepage in one or two years.

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My $0.000002...

Loved the overall sound and texture of Rapid. Avenger has somewhat more capabilities, but the sounds I heard were nothing special to me, and presumably they were created by people with the time and knowledge to wow us.

Not interested right now in spending what either one costs, even at the current discounts, so I'll probably never get either one, maybe used maybe.

Parawave being a new company is a concern too, many young companies with great products aren't sustainable. OTOH, sometimes you just have to place your bets. I have more than one discontinued synth that doesn't suddenly suck because of that. OTOOH, the copy protection in the Ensoniq PARIS DAW locked out many users who invested in their hardware AND software, for years.

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You know, in the current state; i like both synths, i use both synths, getting different results with either of them, and they fit nicely between other synths i own already.

It is just a matter of taste, money and time. But i used them both already enough to know they will be used for a long time (in my case at least). Both are quality products imho and they both have their place on the market. Are there (cheaper) alternatives? Well, in some sense there are (Icarus, Largo, Falcon*, Dune2, Arcsyn and Predator2 come to mind), but the way one get a certain sound out of them is different with all of them. Or in another way; because of the different workflows, one can get (very) different results.

Long story short; they are great and if you like vst's, they won't disappoint if you spent some quality time with them.

*Falcon isn't cheaper by any means ofcourse.

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I downloaded both demos for Rapid and Avenger. The installation of Rapid was easy, Avenger on the other hand was time consuming and annoying.

I found both interfaces comparable on both. Workflow seemed far more simpler and intuitive with Rapid than Avenger. I found many of Rapid's presets unique and usable whereas Avengers presets sounded too familiar and common. However, I do prefer Avenger's GUI color over Rapid's.

Overall I found Rapid easier to use when creating sounds from scratch as well as modifying existing patches. There is a lot more under the hood of Avenger, and I had to look at their video tutorials to figure some things out ...that was not the case with Rapid no video tutorial required. This is not to say Avenger is terrible, its just not my cup of tea. If you are in sound design, Avenger may be for you. If you want to "git-r-done", go with Rapid.

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Ok it’s now two years on. Both synths have had numerous updates. What is the current consensus?
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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I own Rapid isnce teh very beginning, it's one of my most important synths. The patch design process is very intuitive and flexible and the sound is superb. My only concern is the lack of real FM (though there are numberous cool sounding FM wavetables, factory and free third party stuff, ind it's possible to apply phase modulation to them to add some grit or texture) and somehow "bland" sounding filters. Can't say they are bad but I didn't manage to get really convincing analog-like scream of them, like Repro filters can do, though in the latest update you may put the overdrive before the filter so it is probably possible now.

I use numerous synths, software and some hardware, but if I had to restrict myself to one synth it would be Rapid.

The things people requested the most 2 years ago (wavetable import, GUI resizing and alternative GUI themes) are now available.

I also have Avenger demo which I downloaded like 2 years ago and sometimes I try to make some patches or play the presets but somehow neither the sound nor the workflow ever convinced me.

There are more factory expansions and third party presets for Avenger, and it has more different synthesis/sample handling stuff, it's more like a workstation synth, while Rapid is what it is - a wavetable synth (with a multisample player as a small bonus) but a really great one.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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And again? bump! Avenger is currently very buggy for my logic version. But i already got Dune3, Falcon and Alchemy and ZebraHz. So i guess i dont need rapid anymore.

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edited.. pls delete.

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How do Rapid and Avenger stack up regarding granular capabilities / cpu usage?
I have Avenger and use it mostly for granular stuff and always use MSEG envelopes. I like the quality but not the cpu performance. I also want to map custom positions in the audio sample to keys (C-D-E-F-G-A-B), can't do that in Avenger I think. Guess I could do that in Bitwig but I am wondering if Rapid can do that.
Last edited by SonikHorizon on Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Taurus wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:53 pm A layer feature was never a reason for me to buy a softsynth or not. Rapid is a fine synth, but nothing super special. If the price will grow up to 200 bucks again no one will buy it. I think we will see an 404 error page as parawaves homepage in one or two years.
But Taurus you made the following post on Aug 15, 2017 1:10 pm and said:
"What have you expected? A very small company with one overpriced product and no chance to beat a synth like serum. I think in one year rapid is history."

Derek Acorah has returned.
:D

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I also like patcher and know thats quite deep, but has some features missing like preset tagging. if you save a patcher preset, you cant tag it and cant browse it later.
and i hate this :)
exmatproton wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:13 pm
brainzistor wrote: I'm NOT saying that Rapid is a bad synth, I'm saying that its one of the biggest selling points, which is having 8 layers, is practically useless to me, that's all.
I am a long time FL Studio user and Patcher fanatic and i agree almost completely with you.
However, patcher has it's limitations.

no duplicating (of complete set-ups for instance), no multi-cable drag and drop and it is an extra layer (more screens is less efficient).

I'd rather see a nice and complete synth, then that i have to "remake" every synth i have in a patcher set-up in order to get some "basic" functionality.

Again, big patcher fan over here (hell, i just finished an 8 voice Repro-1 patch (fully functioning)), but it is not the whole story.

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