All About MIDI Polyphonic Expression (MPE)

[WasteLand]

[
aftertouch that is according the midi spec the term for polyphonic aftertouch, many developers, of hardware and software use different terms, and beside MPE, aftertouch is always meant to be: channel pressure.

Aftertouch is not always polyphonic.
Polyphonic aftertouch is not the same as Channel pressure.
Pressure starts at zero and goes to the max value. Aftertouch does not start at zero but after a note is played, hence AFTERtouch. Most of the times this last touch is a jump in value instead of a gradually changing value like with pressure.

i only quoted the midi specs. but indeed everyone, also developers, for keyboards, the call it aftertouch, which is has taken over, the original term.

even MIDI-OX channel pressure is called channel aftertouch.

when using the poly aftertouch of maschine mk3 (the term used by maschine/NI) MIDI-OX use the term key aftertouch.

setting the roli seaboard to one channel, and setting pressure tracking mody to... poly aftertouch... MIDI-OX gives key aftertouch.

so aftertouch is the name normally used for channel pressure
poly aftertouch for per note is the name normally used for.. aftertouch..

it are terms.

aftertouch works after note on, and starts of in itself with zero, when you reach the aftertouch range... it is only the key you play, that you must push, you can feel it.

what you call aftertouch, yes difficult to play is gradually, but the range of the pressed key is very very short, but i can make a smooth aftertouch with my novation (sl 49 mkii).

the osmose, a MPE synth/controller, has a different implementation, for this "problem", with a normal keybaord, as they use a "normal", or normal look keyboard.

sensel morph, joué, roli all have a pressure sensitive "underlay". only the roli has made the surface not flat, except in the case of the lightpad.

so channel pressure, i can with my maschine mk3, i believe so with my push, but i only think after a session in ableton, because it now shows only channel aftertouch, while it is poly aftertouch.

but you are right the term channel pressure and aftertouch are more confusing..

[pnyboer]

sensel morph, joué, roli all have a pressure sensitive "underlay". only the roli has made the surface not flat, except in the case of the lightpad.

The Morph and Joué's overlays have relief and texture to them - they aren't exactly "flat." There are bumps and "elevations" to the different controls.

[WasteLand]

sensel morph, joué, roli all have a pressure sensitive "underlay". only the roli has made the surface not flat, except in the case of the lightpad.

The Morph and Joué's overlays have relief and texture to them - they aren't exactly "flat." There are bumps and "elevations" to the different controls.

yes you are right. and in a way roli works in the same way, with a pressure sensitive underground, i think.
the buchla overlay, one of great overlays, of course, is the most pronounced, i think for sensel morph.
joué has overlays, with how do you call it, with 3D shapes...

and the lightpad isn't flat either, it has a touch relief. but that does not have to with a specific control. in that sense the lightpad is flat...

has the sensel morph also have release velocity?

[pnyboer]

Yes, the Morph does provide release velocity.

[Tj Shredder]

Will the fixes I mentioned before ever be done? Or if not, will at least the Unity sources be open sourced?

[pnyboer]

Here's another tutorial about another really amazing piece of software: Madrona Labs Aalto. This is a really inventive adaptation of Buchla's Music Easel-style synthesis that relies on a complex oscillator and low pass gates. It has a really simple patching system that lets you patch in control and modulations. It's been around for years - before software discovered the "West Coast" trends, but still feels fresh. Check it out!
https://youtu.be/mPtZh9RsuYQ

[pnyboer]

Will the fixes I mentioned before ever be done? Or if not, will at least the Unity sources be open sourced?

We are actively working on it. I agree it's been a long time coming! The Unity app can't be open sourced as it is right now, but as we make our way through improvements over the coming months, we will be looking at ways that we can prep it so it could be.

[pnyboer]

Exciting is that Madrona Labs *just* updated all their apps to improve a number of long-standing issues. From today's newsletter:

I'm very excited to get this one out of the door: months in the making, the 1.9.3 update to Aalto, Kaivo, and Virta is now available for both Mac and Windows. Mac users should find a dramatic improvement because this update fixes issues with drawing speed that have crept up due to changes in Mojave and now Catalina.

In addition to the big changes with drawing on Mac OS, I have fixed a few lingering issues affecting both platforms. These include failure to redraw the granulator wave sometimes, and a sequencer triggering bug.

Lastly, I've gone over the MPE MIDI code for better compatibility with the MPE spec and with particular controllers like the Linnstrument. Pitch bend range messages are now responded to according to the spec, and separate pitch bend amounts for Main and Member channel now allow more flexibility in your MPE setup.

[WasteLand]

Yes, the Morph does provide release velocity.

ok, it isn't mentioned, or i didn't see it. thanks for the info!

[pnyboer]

Audio Damage Continua is the most recent in Audio Damage's line of awesome synths. Continua relies on modulation of waveshapes to generate complex tones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UHBfBIjQM

[pnyboer]

Here's another tutorial about using MPE with Eurorack. Hardware is the next frontier for this stuff. This shows how to use the Snyderphonics Mantamate with the Morph and MPE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICISfxtA-qA

[Tj Shredder]

I don‘t know, don‘t have it. If it passes and records all midi channels to a loaded VST, it does at least for a MPE enabled VST... Basically it needs to route all Midi of a specific channel to a single voice...
A good resource is Roger Linns site, there we care to list all MPE compatible synths. Mulab though isn‘t listed...
https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/support ... ded-sounds

[WasteLand]

I don‘t know, don‘t have it. If it passes and records all midi channels to a loaded VST, it does at least for a MPE enabled VST... Basically it needs to route all Midi of a specific channel to a single voice...
A good resource is Roger Linns site, there we care to list all MPE compatible synths. Mulab though isn‘t listed...
https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/support ... ded-sounds

ow didn't know that roger linns site also has a list, roli has also a list, seems up to date, but still some are missing.
but it seems that roger linns site, does more an active job to discover MPE synths (remarkable that the also include roli and roli has a page on their site with links to other MPE hardware brands...)

great list. and yes mulab, like ableton, you can get every DAW to do MPE...

one is still missing on the lists (i have made also a list, that has been expanded, but that is a dutch forum), biotek2, from tracktion, but they don't promote it, but is fully MPE.

and vapirozer2, for example, does not claim to be MPE, but it is of course, you must test, it does full MPE (including a niceown implementation of lift, one i didn't expected, but really works great). but the 'word' claim is of course, a good term, in these times of disinformation....

so we are again on the MPE path, the path of this thread.

if i may add, there are synths, that seems to made for MPE, but don't have implemented it.
but still, it is not a big list, and how many real MPE synths do i have, soft synths, 10? 11 it seems (yes i have also reaktor, so 12, and kontakt 6, so, 13, it can do MPE, via scripting and other means..). it covers a big domain of soundsynthesis/design. (o i forget biwtig studio, i guess i shall have 3.3 and perhaps one version above it... when the plan stops)

on the fence about quanta.

[aMUSEd]

I could do with some more information on using third party MPE plugins in Logic - all I can find covers the built in instruments

[Rivanni]

it seems that roger linns site, does more an active job to discover MPE synths

This is because people are helping him in this topic:
viewtopic.php?p=7915410#p7915410