I play guitar but prefer hearing synth and virtual instruments

[Danvers]

This has not gone in the direction I want. See "Instrument Sound Creation Challenge" topic.

[Netovarisch]

Hi, I understand your position. For myself, I made the following conclusion, I use the guitar as a basis. For example, I record a riff and try to use it as a sample. Sometimes it's interesting. And I played the guitar and the sounds are more varied.
PS company boss recently released a synthesizer pedal for bass. I think to try it. I can't remember the name))

[Danvers]

Hi, I understand your position.

I think you do not. I want an instrument that plays and behaves in a normal fashion, in real time.

[SLiC]

I have tried most of the hardware and software stuff people mention here and never found it satisfactory, I always ended up playing synth on keys better than I could on guitar (despite being an ok guitarist and a rubbish keyboard player)

Then I tried all the MPE stuff to get expression in they keys, linn, rolli etc...didn’t like any of it....adding an expressive e touché worked best for me (as I tend to play keys one handed anyway). Anyway, I have ordered an Osmose now....let’s see if that is the one that has cracked it!

[spacepluk]

I understand why you don’t like the answers but keys just behave much better with synthesizers than any midi guitar system.

And if you care about real-time performance any method that involves detecting pitch in audio signals will always be at a disadvantage.

[eluherlu]

I used Jam Origin Midi Guitar 2, it's not perfect but works for me.. Best for bassline or lead. For chords playing? Not really. I have a great time playing Modo Bass with it. But after spending lots of time with it, I learned it's better to play instruments the way it should played (piano/synth by playing keys, guitar by playing guitar etc). It comes out natural, and better in the context of a song.

[tapper mike]

Okay, I realize my statements may appear condescending.

Here's a thing. There are good, great and lousy musicians playing natural instruments. We generally only remember the ones that we enjoy. What we forget is the dedication to craft they put into mastering their instrument. And we have this crazy assumption that all we need is what we are doing right now. You have a guitar. you have some semblance of how to play. Does that mean you can play like exacly any guitarist you like? No. Many famous guitarist focus on elements of two to three artists they really like and learn to combine them into one style that they can call their own. How do you expect to present a credible instrument performance if you are unwilling to unlearn what you know and focus on what you don't?

There are specific gestures inherent in other instruments that are quite frankly not achievable on a guitar or keyboard.

MPE devices (roli, linnstrument Joule) that allow for that level of expression.




Now if you don't apply yourself to the technique none of that matters on those controllers or instruments.

You've been playing guitar for X amount of time. I've been playing guitar since the seventies. You've been playing a midi enabled guitar for x amount of time. I've played various incarnations of both pitch to voltage (real guitars) and other pseudo guitars since the 80's Professionally I might add. Playing for money. I did a lot of chasing after the next big thing. But along the way I made the most of what I had equipment wise while expanding my skills in attempts to sound like the artists I was trying to emulate.

The difference between someone who plays really well and someone who doesn't is commitment Learn to adapt your playing technique and phrasing. It doesn't happen overnight and you may not get it spot on and you may stumble a few times out. But if you are doing the same thing all the time and expect a different result you will fail. If you do what you always did you'll only get what you've always had.

I'm kind of set in my ways as far as playing guitar. I've found what I like and I can get around a few styles fairly well. I'm never going to play contemporary metal and that's fine. I don't play midi guitar anymore. Many (even here) who play guitar have moved on away from midi guitar because it didn't take them where they wanted to go. Sometimes those instruments failed them.
I wanted to love the artiphon instrument one


I hated it. The one octave fretboard range that were equally and too widely spaced, the lack of a body. The poor controls layout. The only real functionality I could get out of it was when I played it similar to a cello resting the base on my thigh in a sitting position.

So you have two choices. Make the most of what you have equipment wise and try to expand your skill set to adapt and embrace other instruments in your playing.

Or...

Be prepared to move on and learn a different instrument.
Be prepared to do some struggling and self education. I had a lot of fun with the linnstrument when I first got it. I still have a lot of fun with the linnstrument. However there was (and still is) a part that requires learning the linnstrument. Hey guess what... Even Keyboard players had stated that roli seaboards where hard to adapt to at first. Now many have abandoned other keys just to play roli's.

[Danvers]

I 'like' no guitarists, nor any performer/musician. I play and have played only my music, picking and letting it decay. No harmonics, no bends/tremolo, no tapping, no effects. The Fishman Triple Play works well enough for me. I haven't the instrument sound I want.

(I also may get something like a Boss GP-10 to send and modify each string's sound into something else, with the behavior I described above.)

[Qkimat]

I never really got along with guitar to MIDI stuff. However, I fell in love with the launchpad X. It can do a guitar-like layout, and was a bliss to play on right from day one. It can do so much more, however, and it's relatively cheap. Worth it 100%.
Another option I used a lot is heavy modulation of the pickup sound. Guitar rig is good at doing this stuff.

[tapper mike]

@Danvers
The only one stopping you from exploring more techniques is you. And realism of instrument sounds comes from realism in performance first and foremost. A great performance played through a crappy synth will always sound better than a lousy performance played through a crappy synth

@Qkimat
I have two Launchpad Pro's. Mostly because my linnstrument stopped working, I thought the LS wound never work again and the only half attempt I had was trying to merge the LP's. Fortunately Roger Linn helped me and I have the LS back working again.

[Danvers]

@Qkimate: Any keyboard-like device doesn't provide the experience I desire. Acoustic instruments don't use affects, and most effects make an instrument sound unlike one.

@tapper mike: I think you meant, '...a crappy performance through a great synth'. You approach music through playing and those who play and the music they play. I approach music through music and what allows its creation. Local, and Global. I need not your performance experience and sentiment, only your tone creation expertise and your willingness. Perhaps I should have said this at the beginning.

[spacepluk]

I’m not sure what the question is anymore. You said you play guitar and like hearing synths but haven’t found anything that plays like an unplugged electric... So you got a bunch of responses about controllers that allow for more expression.

If you’re asking for sounds I’ve found that in general patches with slower attack in the amp envelope work better because they mask the tracking issues of the midi pickups. But still, midi pickups don’t translate the nuances of picking or any of the other things you mention. So if you insist on midi guitar I would think about adding at least something like a breath controller for some extra modulation.

It’s just the way it is... your guitar is much more expressive than whatever goes out of the midi pickup. It’s not the synths’ fault.

[Danvers]

I said synth and virtual instrument sounds. The Challenge topic emphasizes virtual instruments, which have come a long way in providing the basic quality of resonance of an acoustic instrument. The flow and cyclical decay of a resonating body. This life that one hears even in awful recordings. People tend to think of envelopes, but the musicality of a sound comes from its resonance. The envelopes can sometimes allow an expressive range to open and close that.

What kind of method do you imagine would allow more to the guitar as it plays?

[spacepluk]

You're making it really hard to help you. If you want to get anything useful from here you have to give us more information. And maybe be a little bit more open minded and don't reject all the advice you're getting immediately.

Maybe you don't like synths and virtual instruments so much after all?
Have you tried anything that you liked? What was it?
Maybe point out some specific patches so we can understand what type of sound you're looking for?

All these qualities of sound like "life" and "musicality" are highly subjective and anyway they don't translate well to words. Something that sounds amazingly alive and musical to you will certainly sound like crap to someone else.

I'm not sure how much of this "resonance" you're talking about is a property of the instrument itself or the space it's played in. For example, if you check any close-mic sample of orchestral instruments they sound pretty dead. And we are talking about excellent recordings made with the best gear. Then if you put a good reverb on the same recordings they come back to life. But of course, you have to allow yourself to use effects.

Envelopes are simple tools. You can achieve complex results by combining several simple tools in clever ways. I think you want sounds that have some harmonic movement. You can do that today in many VIs using envelopes, lfos, etc. I think you'll be happier with synths that have flexible modulation options (Massive and Zebra come to mind but there are many others) especially if you can modulate the parameters of modulation sources themselves using other modulators or maybe velocity, etc.

You could also just use sampled acoustic instruments if that's what you like. The sound will be more "static" because they are just recordings, but they can be very convincing and maybe that's closer to what you want.

Anyway, all this talk about sound generation is completely independent from your guitar. It doesn't matter what harmonic orgy is going on in your guitar acoustically... the midi pickup will output note-on, note-off and velocity... and maybe a CC with the picking position... but that's about it.

You can produce that same performance data with most el-cheapo midi keyboards. And do it without any latency or mistriggered notes. It will feel more "connected" and more like a real instrument. Sounds that were static, boring, or felt wrong with the midi pickup will suddenly open up and feel "musical".

In my opinion there's zero advantages to using a midi pickup especially now with so many MPE options.

[tapper mike]

In my opinion there's zero advantages to using a midi pickup especially now with so many MPE options.

While I agree whole heartedly, That being said, It doesn't make a difference if you aren't willing to commit.