KVR Audio

HoTRocK · Post by **HoTRocK** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:00 pm

shite on my Alesis monitor two's and when its bang on through the monitors, sounds shite through the cans?
(sony mdr-v700)
Both are decent bits of kit in there own right but...

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:05 pm

Headphone mixes are notorious for not translating well to monitors. When those headphones are DJ specials (admittedly they're good for that) you've got no chance.

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:19 pm

Headphones have a very different stereo perspective than monitors. When mixing on them you may easilly miss any serious phasing issues which will show on monitors.

The accoustic environment of monitors are coloured by the studio environment, much like real life, but just more controlled.

No matter how good your headphones, they are rarely true flat lined frequency response. Low frequency sound needs to move air. There is very little air to be moved in the headphones and manufacturers compensate for that.

Manc Chris · Post by **Manc Chris** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:22 pm

nuffink wrote:Headphone mixes are notorious for not translating well to monitors. When those headphones are DJ specials (admittedly they're good for that) you've got no chance.

Use phones to monitor performance, and monitor speakers for mastering. Tis the only way

HoTRocK · Post by **HoTRocK** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:43 pm

Thanx guys, this bastards been bugging me for yonks, Dunno why i never thought to ask before.
Guess I'll have to curtail late night recording or simply piss the neighbours off some more

chris_b · Post by **chris_b** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:30 pm

Sepheritoh wrote:Headphones have a very different stereo perspective than monitors. When mixing on them you may easilly miss any serious phasing issues which will show on monitors.

Dunno if it's only with XP and only certain soundcard drivers but if you select "headphones" in your speaker setup then some of the left channel is fed to the right earphone with a slight delay, and vice versa with the right channel, thus simulating the sound of speakers.

Doesn't work on my computer using KX drivers though, so I made a little module for the DSP which does the same thing - it's not ideal but it helps.

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:40 pm

chris_b wrote:Dunno if it's only with XP and only certain soundcard drivers but if you select "headphones" in your speaker setup then some of the left channel is fed to the right earphone with a slight delay, and vice versa with the right channel, thus simulating the sound of speakers.

Doesn't work on my computer using KX drivers though, so I made a little module for the DSP which does the same thing - it's not ideal but it helps.

That is the DSP functionality built into windows. Don't know if it's since DX7 or 9 but I never liked it. It sounds phoney. You can not control it by setting the delay times (that I know off). It is aimed more at the games market than the sound engineering market.

PS I'm refering to not liking the windows attempt at DSP, not yours

Have not tried yours.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:46 pm

(moved from the cafe to everything else)

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Hey teach

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:01 pm

I think it's for the simple fact that headphones don't allow your body to 'feel the music'. So what sounds good in headphones, is suddenly bassey as all get out on your monitors. Mix just right on the monitors, it sounds thin and papery in the cans. My way to work around this is 'anticipation'. If the bass response sounds great in the cans, bring it down just a bit before you play it on your monitors. On the monitors it might be just a little weak, so maybe about about half of the initial reduction, and you should be AOK in both cans and monitors then.

As well, keep in mind that everyone has different playback systems too. From cheap piezo laptop speakers, to humongous boom box Bass City pimp mobiles. So again, I try to anticipate what my mix will sound like on these systems as well. Not that I'll play them on every permutation, but just knowing their characteristics gives a good idea I think.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:06 pm

Thanks for starting the thread and for the replies. I've been wondering about a lot of this stuff, and how it will affect things once I can finally afford a couple of semi-proper monitors.

I usually don't chime in to mention it, but I get a lot out of these question-and-answer threads. If I asked about everything I *don't* know, there'd be no room for anyone else to post... :-D Always glad when someone else starts asking about "one of those things" that had been wandering around the back of my otherwise-vacant skull.

Meffy

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:11 pm

Yeah Steven. You are on the ball by saying one should anticipate what a mix should sound like in a different environment. Most of us do not have the funds to buy every conceivable different system just to listen to a mix in that environment. Understanding the differences halps a lot and just knowing what would make a mix sound horrible in a different environment is the key.

I have not even had the opportunity to try out every environment, so I have no idea what they all do to a mix.

Many pro mixers always say that the 2 ultimate tests are to listen to a mix on 1) a car stereo and 2) a FM radio. If it sounds good on monitors and those two places, it will sound good everywhere else.

chris_b · Post by **chris_b** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:06 pm

Sepheritoh wrote:PS I'm refering to not liking the windows attempt at DSP, not yours Have not tried yours.

TBH my method is really pretty lame - delay each channel by 12 samples (@48KHz) and mix it into the opposite channel at about half the volume. It's good enough for nipping any weird phase-cancellation issues in the bud but no way a substitute for proper monitoring.

gizmo · Post by **gizmo** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:39 pm

I'd just say a word from the wilderness about the constant (and constantly ignored) effect of the room. Any untreated room is going to have peaks and valleys in it's audio response curve which influence the sound of your monitors -- not your headphones. Thus in the room your mix sounds good but when you put it on a CD and play it in a different room it sounds weird. The only way around this is to treat the room so it's acoustically neutral or close. This involves foam but mostly in my experience fiberglass insulation in the corners -- I made them look like giant speakers -- and a general awareness of the principles. If you're serious, do this! People spend all this money on equipment but if you can't hear it right cause there's a huge standing wave at whatever frequency in your room the quality of the equipment is moot.

Why does my mix sound bang on through cans yet ...