One Synth Challenge #140: Pendulate (exponent1 wins!)

[Spring Goose]

Coool

[schiing]

Its fair as long as you keep it out of audio rate. Don’t get faster then 20 Hz...
In other DAWs you could draw the same as automation - think along that line...

I'm curious - is this an established rule? I had been perhaps wrongly thinking that any automation was fine, however crazy - becuase the sound still comes from the synth. It's not the same as an effect that drastically changes the sound of the synth - it is the sound of the synth, albeit pushed into strange territory...
Any prior discussion of this anyone remember or can point to? I can't see this in the rules on the OSC site. I have had it in the back of my mind to do an OSC with extreme modulation techniques for a while, though not tried it yet...

Thanks

I was thinking about the same thing when I hard-panned multiple, although unique, instances to create stereo patches this month - it doesn't sound much like the mono-synth it actually is [edit: pun intended - I had no idea how the patches suddenly went from mono to stereo ].

But there's not that much of a difference between doing that and creating, say, a chorus effect by offsetting identical patches. It isn't always easy to draw the line - personally I try not to overthink it, and I tell myself that I think I've got the general gist of the guidelines by now.

[liqih]

We can so so many things with the DAWs of today, like 1/512 beat division, that you can do granular with any synth.
I think that voters (for what is worth) should decide if the synth is recognizable or not. Funnily enough those who make the most *far-from-the source* sounds are those that usually win , like layering 5 or more instances to make a single sound in linear additive synthesis, which the synth itself can't do. Limiting modulation but not limiting the maximum instances number makes little sense to me. Anyway we've been there already, I found my compromise.

[z.prime]

Its fair as long as you keep it out of audio rate. Don’t get faster then 20 Hz...
In other DAWs you could draw the same as automation - think along that line...

I don't really agree with this. Although not audio rate, using automation like this to achieve things the synth can't do on its own has been the only way to get certain sounds such as pitch changes for percussion in some synths and is an acceptable approach. I think if someone could draw in audio rate modulation, then using any other sources for modulations like Bitwig's modulators for similar purposes would be fine. However, as far as I am aware all DAWs are processing the plugins at block size, like 512 bytes which means modulation doesn't happen at audio rate, anyway.

[ELEX]

I'd say that things like amplitude or filter modulation at audio rates is well into "going full eleven" territory. For one thing you'd create sidebands and fundamentally change the timbre of the synth. Aren't the rules not stated as they are to prevent just that ?

[liqih]

I'd say that things like amplitude or filter modulation at audio rates is well into "going full eleven" territory. For one thing you'd create sidebands and fundamentally change the timbre of the synth. Aren't the rules not stated as they are to prevent just that ?

Yes, Ring Modulators (audio rate AM), Chorus, Pitch shifters, Granulizers, or even very a short delay FX with a lot of feedback, audio rate FM and Waveshapers/Distortions. All change the timbre of the synth beyond it's own features as sound generator.
Basically we could tell 4 rules (if we want to be strict)
for external effects:
No high feedback,
No waveshaping,
No sampling,
No modulation of parameters at rates above 20 Hz.

[z.prime]

I'd say that things like amplitude or filter modulation at audio rates is well into "going full eleven" territory. For one thing you'd create sidebands and fundamentally change the timbre of the synth. Aren't the rules not stated as they are to prevent just that ?

The distinction is whether you're doing this with synth parameters or the subsequent audio. If it's with synth parameters, the synth is still making the sounds, so it's fair game if you ask me.

[FrogsInPants]

I'm looking forward to the OSC for my DCOffsynth. It produces a DC offset with one modulatable parameter, the DC offset. I can scarcely imagine the amazing snares you all will come up with for it.

[ELEX]

I'd say that things like amplitude or filter modulation at audio rates is well into "going full eleven" territory. For one thing you'd create sidebands and fundamentally change the timbre of the synth. Aren't the rules not stated as they are to prevent just that ?

The distinction is whether you're doing this with synth parameters or the subsequent audio. If it's with synth parameters, the synth is still making the sounds, so it's fair game if you ask me.

Though still inclined to be conservative in this regard, I you do see your point.

[ELEX]

I'm looking forward to the OSC for my DCOffsynth. It produces a DC offset with one modulatable parameter, the DC offset. I can scarcely imagine the amazing snares you all will come up with for it.

That's just brilliant !!! With the right modulator that thing can do absolutely anything !

[zarf]

I'd say that things like amplitude or filter modulation at audio rates is well into "going full eleven" territory. For one thing you'd create sidebands and fundamentally change the timbre of the synth. Aren't the rules not stated as they are to prevent just that ?

The distinction is whether you're doing this with synth parameters or the subsequent audio. If it's with synth parameters, the synth is still making the sounds, so it's fair game if you ask me.

Yeah, now I've thought about it more I totally agree with this.
All the controls *on the synth* change the timbre, of course, and that's all automation does. If abusing a synth by automating it at the speed of light created a cool sound from the synth, for me that is 100% in the spirit of this challenge - to see what sounds we can get out of the synth, and what we can do with those sounds.
The rules are about appropriate use of FX after the audio has left the synth which seems fundamentally different to me.

[Tj Shredder]

Its fair as long as you keep it out of audio rate. Don’t get faster then 20 Hz...
In other DAWs you could draw the same as automation - think along that line...

I'm curious - is this an established rule? I had been perhaps wrongly thinking that any automation was fine, however crazy - becuase the sound still comes from the synth. It's not the same as an effect that drastically changes the sound of the synth - it is the sound of the synth, albeit pushed into strange territory...
Any prior discussion of this anyone remember or can point to? I can't see this in the rules on the OSC site. I have had it in the back of my mind to do an OSC with extreme modulation techniques for a while, though not tried it yet...

Thanks

If you automate in audio rate, you can create samples, oscillators and in general sound. What I mean is that the highest frequency of any modulating signal must not be in an audible range. Or as, mentioned the synth would only need to produce a modulatable dc and could sound like any other synth.
That would also be a challenge, but the synth would be the DAW and not the chosen challenge...

[zarf]

Thanks for all the constructive inputs I hadn't been thinking about it quite in that way and the DC offset synth is indeed a great thought experiment. It would be an interesting battle between DAWS and creative platforms for which could help people get the best results from that.
One instance of the DC offset synth for the hardcore? It's a bit mind boggling to remember that my favourite music is just one number at a time.

I've been finding it helpful to think of it as being about the 'character' of the synth.

Fo example, if I use 1000 instances of a synth, each producing only a sine wave, in a massive homebrew additive system, then the results would have little or no relationship to the synth/sound source and hence not really what OSC is about, imho.

What I've always been tempted to explore though, is the way different synths respond differently to being pushed outside of their normal use expectations. I imagine that modulating the ADSR parameters of a synth (as a totally random example) at audio rate might produce very different results depending on the synth - probably none of them useful or interesting, but maybe some hidden gems or interesting artifacts.

In this second thought experiment, the aim is to reveal and make use of the fact that each synth is coded differently and when pushed to new territory, might produce results of interest that would indeed reflect the 'character' of the synth.

As usual, it appears to me now that it is a more nuanced issue than I first thought

When I make some time I am now curious to try this out. Damn, another reason to jump on Bitwig is not what I need

[RichardSemper]

hello.

Right now i tried to download some of the recomended Plugins for One-Synth Challenge. Some worked fine but on Kimu Arp, Phrazor, MidiSeQ! and MidiMod! the Links didn´t work for me. Maybee someone like to check this.

Thanks for this challenge, this is so much input for newbies in making computer music.

Thanks for the heads-up The recommended plugins list is in need of some updating.

If anyone has any favourite free plugins they use, suitable for OSC, please let me know over on the general thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=301957&start=3930

[liqih]

So far this is my track, mix updated (comments about that are very welcome).

https://soundcloud.com/liqih/world-mechanics

29 Pedulate synths in Ableton Live
+ Abeton Reverbs, Delays, Compressors, EQs