KVR Audio

SamDi · Post by **SamDi** » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:05 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:54 am It's great because it's a really complex synth that's as easy to work with as an emulation like bx_oberhausen or Korg's ARP Odyssey. I want to try it out on a bassline if I can but it's hard to go past oberhausen or Monoment Bass so I'm not sure when/if It will get a chance.

I think Pigments might sound lame in a first step (maybe it are the wannabe-analoguish filters?). But after applying internal saturation, eq and compressor FX, it can sound really fantastic. Of course everything very subtle. Might solve your problem beside drift and some noise.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:23 am

Why would you compress a synth when you can shape the sound with its envelopes? Every synth sound with built-in compression I have ever heard in my life, hardware or software, has just made it louder. You can turn the compressor off, raise the volume and it sounds exactly the same.

SamDi · Post by **SamDi** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Hm, that's a good question. I would say it's not exactly the same. ENVs are triggered by notes and normally have a kind of static curve, if you do not modulate it. A compressor just follows the audio material.

E.g. for a 16th bassline, a compressor is nice to work out the attack transients by setting the comp attack to somewhere between 40 and 120ms. But even more important is, to get it start pumping by setting the release somewhere <20ms, sometimes even ~1ms. I normally have rhytmic patterns in the 16th basslines by emphasizing notes via velocity. This pumping compressor is then adding some extra amount of groove to it and makes the single notes more gaudy (hm, didn't find the appropriate English word, for what I wanted to say). I think it would be pretty difficult (and then with much more effort) to achive the same result just with envelopes.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:23 am Why would you compress a synth when you can shape the sound with its envelopes? Every synth sound with built-in compression I have ever heard in my life, hardware or software, has just made it louder. You can turn the compressor off, raise the volume and it sounds exactly the same.

Good luck modulating natural resonances and amplitude fluctuations in a complex pad with internal modulators.. or shaping the attack of a pluck exactly the way you want it in a simplistic synth that doesn't let you modulate the attack and decay or provide any sort of curves for those.

Compressors have a very good reason for existing within a synthesizer setup. Even better if it's built in to the synth and happens to sound awesome.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:28 pm

+1. Bass sounds can be spiky and uneven, comps would fix that. Comps are envelope shapers too.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:14 am

Not synth bass, unless you make it that way, in which case you can reduce the spikeyness in the patch. The one exception might be where you need specific settings to provoke the right resonance response, in which case compression might be your only recourse without ruining everything but I'd always opt to change the patch rather than add an effect.

bmanic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pmGood luck modulating natural resonances and amplitude fluctuations in a complex pad with internal modulators.. or shaping the attack of a pluck exactly the way you want it in a simplistic synth that doesn't let you modulate the attack and decay or provide any sort of curves for those.

I'm sorry but I don't think about pads in that kind of detail, I just want movement in them, which I can get easily enough by detuning one osc, no modulation required. And I don't do "plucks" at all, although Orion's original Plucked String synth had a great randomiser on it's attack that made for great basslines. Sadly, that feature was removed in v2. But there's always velocity for doing that kind of thing in a controlled or random way.

Compressors have a very good reason for existing within a synthesizer setup. Even better if it's built in to the synth and happens to sound awesome.

No, they don't. Give me one example, provide a patch that demonstrates this and I'll show that it's just louder or can be done by altering the modulation slightly.

Dalle · Post by **Dalle** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:38 am

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:14 am
bmanic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pmGood luck modulating natural resonances and amplitude fluctuations in a complex pad with internal modulators.. or shaping the attack of a pluck exactly the way you want it in a simplistic synth that doesn't let you modulate the attack and decay or provide any sort of curves for those.

Compressors have a very good reason for existing within a synthesizer setup. Even better if it's built in to the synth and happens to sound awesome.
No, they don't. Give me one example, provide a patch that demonstrates this and I'll show that it's just louder or can be done by altering the modulation slightly.

This is silly. You can have a synth patch with complex nonlinear modulations that produce wide dynamics that can’t be predicted. Sometimes you just want to compress a synth.

nirm123 · Post by **nirm123** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:52 am

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:54 am

From the latest threads I've seen turning sour with BONES replies in the last few days, it seems he's definitely having his PMS

claudedefaren · Post by **claudedefaren** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:59 am

He's always like this. Just ignore him. Any other forum would have banned him at this point.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:37 pm

claudedefaren wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:59 am He's always like this. Just ignore him. Any other forum would have banned him at this point.

Dude.. people should never be banned for their opinion nor the way they write it (unless they attack somebody personally and insult them directly, over and over again). Other forums are not KvR. KvR is awesome and the moderators here are absolute legends. There's a very good reason we have some fantastic people with very interesting characters on these forums who have stuck around all these years (just look at that weirdo called Vurt!

).

BONES is perfectly entitled to his opinion and also perfectly entitled to utter them. He just says it all blatantly without filler. Personally I really like his style of writing, a lot. It's so refreshing when you know exactly what somebody thinks. People take offense too easily. If he says "No, you are wrong" doesn't mean that you are actually wrong.. it just means that in his opinion you are wrong.

In the case of compressors I'm very confident in my opinion and knowledge, thus have no problems saying that I think Bones is utterly wrong and that I also think he doesn't at all understand how it all fits together. I also happen to know with confidence that I'm an expert when it comes to programming synthesizers so my combined knowledge in this particular discussion is unquestionable. Thus Bones can say whatever he wants (and he does, which is awesome!) and it won't bother me one bit.

perpetual3 · Post by **perpetual3** » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:46 pm

My issue is not with BONES’ opinions, of which some I agree, but rather with the way he takes his own personal opinion and considers it to be a valid generalization for every one and everything else, and on top of that his tendency to attack the character of the person whose opinion disagrees with his. I’ve been on kvr for years, and I’ve lost count of how many times he has called a person an idiot and stupid. It’s shame, because after BONES hyped NI TRK01, which I like and wouldn’t have considered but for his praise, I do give some weight to his opinions about a synth (for example, monoment bass, which I would also have outrightly dismissed).

With respect to Pigments (and in my opinion, the Buchla), a compressor is useful to tame resonance precisely because there is “something” about the Arturia resonance to me that I can’t quite put my finger on that makes it more challenging for me to program precisely what I’m looking for and fit in the mix.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:37 am

Given a lack of evidence to the contrary, why would. I act any other way? Or should I just take your word for it that I've been doing things wrong for 37 years?

Dalle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:38 amThis is silly. You can have a synth patch with complex nonlinear modulations that produce wide dynamics that can’t be predicted. Sometimes you just want to compress a synth.

Which is very much be the exception to prove the rule.

claudedefaren wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:59 amHe's always like this. Just ignore him. Any other forum would have banned him at this point.

What, for having a different opinion to you? Grow up.

bmanic wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:37 pmIn the case of compressors I'm very confident in my opinion and knowledge, thus have no problems saying that I think Bones is utterly wrong and that I also think he doesn't at all understand how it all fits together.

Any chance you'd be happy to share an example? I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:10 am

Personally I prefer to use third party solutions for sculpting beyond the basic sound. Adding your own custom processing chain can actually give it a more distinctive sound, more unique to your own tastes. The downside is doesn't save with the patch nicely. Fortunately Logic allows you to save entire chains, so its not so bad.

I'm not saying this is the best way, its certainly a goof workaround f you need it, It's just a method I prefer personally.

chagzuki · Post by **chagzuki** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:06 pm

Multiband compressors are absolutely necessary for certain types of sound. Handy to have them built in.

New Pigments 2 Thread (On Topic Discussion Only, Please)