ST2 XL guitar quality

[Hello everyone]

I was just curious if anybody made a song similar in style to Linkin Park or Velvet Revolver entirely with ST2 (without using Amplitube).

I'm mostly a film/classical composer (I use GPO), but I'm finding that I may need to do a little bit of LP or VR for a certain scene in a movie. I might purchase ST2 for it's wide range of sounds, but it would be nice if I could hear some guitars (and drums) in either of the styles I mentioned. The only reason I ask that you refrain from using Amplitube is because I will have very little money left after purchasing ST2 and I won't be able to get Amplitube . I'd just like to see what the amps are capable of on ST2

I heard about Studiophonik, but I may not be able to wait that long for it...... damn deadlines.

[Lunch Money]

I'm always surprised that people spend that much money on virtual guitars and amps.

There are many guitarists around who will do it for you for free, just because they're itching to be a part of a project. They will usually have their own gear. If you know which chords you'd use on a keyboard, it's a simple matter to tell a guitarist what you want, and even play the line on a non-guitar-sounding patch just so that they can get the rhythm and feel of it, and then trust them to come up with something.

Don't get me wrong-- I don't mean this as a criticism at ALL, I'm just saying that you might as well get the real thing!

OR-- for Linkin Park at least (not necessarily Velvet Revolver), you can learn power chords in an afternoon, spend a week practicing, and be able to at least hack together the rhythm part with clever editing. The money spent on Amplitube can actually get you a real guitar and a practice amp, though there are also freebie amp sims that'll do the trick. A real guitar and a free amp sim will sound better than a sampled guitar and Amplitube, I'm sure!

Plus, you'll be learning a new instrument!

Greg

[Hello everyone]

Thanks, Lunch Money.

Right after I posted that, I thought of somebody I know personally that'll do it for free. But he's a good friend so I should probably pay him something (maybe Monopoly money )

All I know is that this movie is turning out to be (and I mean this in the nicest term I can currently think of) a piece of shit. I was initially asked to direct it, but then I read the script and realized I don't want to have my name bear that much responsibility for a lost cause. So I'm doing the video editing, special effects, sound effects, music, and some props/other stuff just to gain some experience.

[Lunch Money]

It's always cool to gain experience. Too bad it's not a project you believe strongly in, because your work would likely turn out better for it. Still, professionals will sometimes get jobs they don't care for, and they still turn out some damn fine work.

Give your guitarist friend a call. He might be happy to do it just for his name in the credits.

Greg

[Squids]

Yes, of COURSE it's great to get your guitar player friend to do it for free! But there are so many reasons to get guitar and amp sims in software though. Just like there are reasons to have pianos, organs, drums, orchestras etc. all available to you at any time of the day at night to do whatever YOU the composer wants and is able to get them to do! Maybe your guitar player friend's amp is good. Maybe it's a piece of junk and you can't get a good sound out of it (or maybe it picks up radio stations and hum!). Most likely he doesn't have a Vox, a Marshall, a Fender Twin and over a thousand amp combinations that AmpliTube or SampleTank 2 has ( ST2 has most of AmpliTube built into it btw).

Then, on the sample side, there's nothing better than a real guitar played by a great player. But, if he's not playing in time or he's not playing the notes you'd like or if you'd rather hear a Strat or a Tele or a Les Paul or Ricky 12 string etc. then unless he has a rack of vintage guitars all available too then something like Electric Guitar Capsule for ST2 would be a brilliant addition.

Here's what I recommend:

SampleTank 2 XL
Electric Guitar Capsule
Studio Drums Capsule

You can read about it in detail and pick them up on www.esoundz.com or any IK dealer.

If you like those then I recommend Acoustic Guitar Capsule and the Bass Capsule to round off your "virtual guitar, bass, drums" set up. You may still want to supplement your productions with a real guitarist and visa versa. Sometimes I'll even use sampled guitars for scratch tracks to show the guitar player I am working with what I want. It's a great thing to have.

Of course, you know this is similar to what you can do with something like GPO vs. hiring an orchestra. A real orchestra is the optimal thing to use when you can but having the sampled orchestra is really handy for mock ups or to supplement real orchestras (or small orchestras to make them sound fuller) or to replace them when your production simply doesn't have the budget.

I've personally used SampleTank on some gigs where I had to essentially recreate a band when there was no budget to record a band. I have to say that EVERY composer should have SampleTank 2XL. To not have it is missing out on a tool that will save you in a crunch situation where you may need to do something like this. Having integrated fx (particularly the amp simulation IN the module! Not to mention there is most of the effects from T-Racks in there too for high production quality EQ, Compression and Limiting) and any of the thousands of native sound libraries for it is REAL composition/production power that can pay for itself very quickly.

It's a multi-tool composer's staple piece. Even if you have things like Giga and other great sample-based stuff, I STILL think you gotta have SampleTank 2. It's just so IMMEDIATE and musical.

[Lunch Money]

And expensive.

Not for what you get, I agree. In fact, for what you get, it's actually a mind-blowing bargain!

However, I am but meek and poor.

Everything Squids said is true, though-- the power of having the instruments at your disposal is not to be taken lightly.

I still say get your friend. Even if his gear is mediocre, you just might find that it's working for the project. Some of those crappy little amps played with crappy guitars have become famous sounds-- Sonic Youth springs to mind.

For the Linkin Park type chords, though, you will find it very time-consuming to try to program convincing palm-muted power chord chunking. I've never heard a sampled guitar do it convincingly. You have to be either *expertly* familiar with your software (and even then, good luck!) and exceedingly patient. Whereas for a guitarist who knows rock, it's a quick and simple matter.

Of course, I don't mean to take away from his particular point of view, which is completely valid-- as he says, they're two different approaches for two different kinds of situations.

Greg

[Squids]

If you think it is "expensive" then that already puts it out of reach. But, I think the product line is good for a wide range of budgets. For example, if you're composing for TV/Film then you probably have some budget and then ST2 XL is a great suggestion along with your choice of over 25 ST2 format libraries such as the ones I suggested.

But, if you are on a real low budget then for less than a hundred bucks you can get JUST the Electric Guitar Capsule or Studio Drums it comes with ST2 LE.

[ATS]

And expensive.

Not for what you get, I agree. In fact, for what you get, it's actually a mind-blowing bargain!

However, I am but meek and poor.

Everything Squids said is true, though-- the power of having the instruments at your disposal is not to be taken lightly.

I still say get your friend. Even if his gear is mediocre, you just might find that it's working for the project. Some of those crappy little amps played with crappy guitars have become famous sounds-- Sonic Youth springs to mind.

For the Linkin Park type chords, though, you will find it very time-consuming to try to program convincing palm-muted power chord chunking. I've never heard a sampled guitar do it convincingly. You have to be either *expertly* familiar with your software (and even then, good luck!) and exceedingly patient. Whereas for a guitarist who knows rock, it's a quick and simple matter.

Of course, I don't mean to take away from his particular point of view, which is completely valid-- as he says, they're two different approaches for two different kinds of situations.

Greg

man, no offense at all but you say it is expensive, then you say you can learn to play power chords yourself, which mean you would have to buy or rent a guitar to do so, that is expensive. and then there are people like me that have no intrest whatsover in learning to play a real guitar and actually enjoy using things like sampletank and capsules instead. They take up a lot less room too

[Lunch Money]

No offence taken.

If you know about guitars, you know that $400 can get you a top-quality guitar. I've been playing guitar for well over a decade, and while my acoustic wasn't cheap, both of my electrics were ~$350 CDN!

One is a Godin-- assembled in the U.S.A. by parts made in Canada, so it's not just a cheesy import. Of course, they DO follow assembly-line models in order to get the prices so low, so I'm not saying it's "hand-crafted" or anything; however, for a production line guitar, the quality is remarkable. Genuine Seymour Duncan pickups, too (not just Duncan Design), which is amazing in a guitar that price.

I guess I'm biased, as a guitarist, but to me even just HOLDING it, you know you're getting what you pay for. I LIKE the fact that it takes up space.

Regardless, it's not out in left field that I'd still recommend getting a guitar as an alternative, considering the price:

Click me for just an example.

I mean, that amp's not any good, but it MAY do the trick...and if not, there's some great freeware out there. The guitar probably won't be set up perfectly, but take it to a guitar tech or a knowledgable friend, and for $20, it'll play more than well enough for basic riffing.

A guitar, amp, and accessories... for half the cost of a box of software. I already agreed that something like SampleTank has it's place, but I'm not a nutbar for mentioning price.

Greg

[ATS]

No offence taken.

If you know about guitars, you know that $400 can get you a top-quality guitar. I've been playing guitar for well over a decade, and while my acoustic wasn't cheap, both of my electrics were ~$350 CDN!

One is a Godin-- assembled in the U.S.A. by parts made in Canada, so it's not just a cheesy import. Of course, they DO follow assembly-line models in order to get the prices so low, so I'm not saying it's "hand-crafted" or anything; however, for a production line guitar, the quality is remarkable. Genuine Seymour Duncan pickups, too (not just Duncan Design), which is amazing in a guitar that price.

I guess I'm biased, as a guitarist, but to me even just HOLDING it, you know you're getting what you pay for. I LIKE the fact that it takes up space.

Regardless, it's not out in left field that I'd still recommend getting a guitar as an alternative, considering the price:

Click me for just an example.

I mean, that amp's not any good, but it MAY do the trick...and if not, there's some great freeware out there. The guitar probably won't be set up perfectly, but take it to a guitar tech or a knowledgable friend, and for $20, it'll play more than well enough for basic riffing.

A guitar, amp, and accessories... for half the cost of a box of software. I already agreed that something like SampleTank has it's place, but I'm not a nutbar for mentioning price.

Greg

I got the upgrade for $279 dollars which isn't bad since I get like tons of different kinds of guitars and soooo much more, really any kind of instrument I want at my fingertips.

Just the guitar capsule only cost $79 but I can see your point too since you are a guitar player.

[Lunch Money]

I'm a musician, too; not just a guitarist. It's not just bias, but a simple statement that you'll be very hard-pressed to get a "proper" hard rock guitar sound out of a VST. At risk of overstating my case, I'll say that it's impossible.

In most cases, the sample library is relatively cheap... relative to an orchestra, relative to a concert grand piano, etc. In this case, all I'm saying is that it's cheaper and even easier (power chords are not tough to learn) to get a guitar than to try to program it.

Greg

[ATS]

I'm a musician, too; not just a guitarist. It's not just bias, but a simple statement that you'll be very hard-pressed to get a "proper" hard rock guitar sound out of a VST. At risk of overstating my case, I'll say that it's impossible.

In most cases, the sample library is relatively cheap... relative to an orchestra, relative to a concert grand piano, etc. In this case, all I'm saying is that it's cheaper and even easier (power chords are not tough to learn) to get a guitar than to try to program it.

Greg

ok well we just disagree I guess...I think it's cheaper and easier to spend 79 bucks for the electric guitar capsule.

[Caleb]

The problem with buying a guitar capsule isn't so much the quality but its usefulness in the long run.

I made up my mind a while ago that I didn't really want other musicians working with me on my stuff most of the time and I have a brother who is an excellent guitarist and has about 10 guitars accoustic and electric.

However, the disadvantage of going down the computer-generated guitar route is that it's really quite difficult to program a guitar part in midi.

Squids - I guess this is a question for you, but other than some pristine samples, do your guitar capsules offer anything else useful for the non-guitarist guitar programmer?

Caleb

[Rellik]

A guitar, amp, and accessories... for half the cost of a box of software. I already agreed that something like SampleTank has it's place, but I'm not a nutbar for mentioning price.

But what about a good soundcard to record into, and a mic if you are micing the amp?

Plus learning how to play the guitar takes time (as others have mentioned ). Not that it's not a good idea to learn how to play, but if you have no interest except for using it in your music, then it's not worth the hours and hours spent learning.

Just wanted to contribute my 2 cents to the thread. And yeah, it is REALLY hard to sequence a good electric guitar riff... sounds like an opening for a freeware MIDI-soft-synth if I've ever heard one or did xoxos already make something similar, and if so I wonder if it would work in this situation...

[Hello everyone]

If you think it is "expensive" then that already puts it out of reach. But, I think the product line is good for a wide range of budgets. For example, if you're composing for TV/Film then you probably have some budget and then ST2 XL is a great suggestion along with your choice of over 25 ST2 format libraries such as the ones I suggested.

But, if you are on a real low budget then for less than a hundred bucks you can get JUST the Electric Guitar Capsule or Studio Drums it comes with ST2 LE.

I gotta admit: I'm not really that low on a budget. I could afford Amplitube if I bought ST2, but I was just curious of how much Amplitube was incorporated into ST2. Thanks for answering.

I think I will still end up purchasing ST2 because I can already see it helping in future situations. I wouldn't want to be carrying a guitar and drums on an airplane with me I'm still going to use my friend for the guitar playing this time, but it's situations like those where I would like to use my laptop for a little bit of creative time. Plus with so many different sounds, I'm bound to come up with something that maybe I would not have initially predicted.