Steven Slate VSX Headphone

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

spunkmuffin wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:49 pm Yes, the bit made from beryllium will be the diaphragm, which is the dome at the centre of the membrane. Most of the surrounding membrane is likely made from some clear polymer. The term 'driver' usually includes the magnet, pleated surround, diaphragm, coil, former, basket...the lot really. I am nitpicking. :wink:

I am very interested in these. It's the least expensive set of beryllium diaphragm headphones available, which is great. I'd like to know more about the equalisation, and how it's working. Thanks for the review bmanic, I trust your judgement and if they give a better window into the music than the headphones you've mentioned that makes them very attractive.
These are not beryllium driver headphones. Slate has a FAQ page where you can find more technical details:
"The VSX hardware is a Beryllium metal-plated driver coupled with a neodymium driver assembly for unprecedented acoustic performance."

You can already find this being discussed on gearslutz, but VSX headphones seem to be rebranded RBH HP-2 headphones with custom modifications. There are other headphones in this casing that also come with "beryllium" drivers.

I put beryllium in quotation marks, because you can have only a tiny amount of beryllium used in your driver and still call it beryllium driver. But that is misleading, they only market their product around the name of a premium material.

RBH also marketed their headphones as beryllium headphones, but they at least tell you this:
"The HP-2 utilizes our 45mm diameter driver diaphragm that incorporates a beryllium surface that has been applied using a technique called, “thermal physical vapor deposition.” This micro-thin layer of beryllium provides an extended frequency response (10Hz to 40,000 Hz)"

"Micro-thin layer of beryllium", micro meaning that you can't even see it I guess :? I came across people comparing VSX headphones to Focal Stellia, but Focal actually tells you that they are using a pure beryllium dome. If you would take apart this 3000$ headphones, you could hold this beryllium piece in your hand. Much different from a micro-thin layer that you can't even see :)

And Slate dare to attribute the properties of using a pure beryllium dome to their product in their youtube video.

You can read more by looking at page 56 on gearslutz, then skip to page 61 - interesting disscusion started to roll in when Slates partner who was behind VSX hardware, joined the conversation to answer some of the concerns. He says specifically, twice even, that they developed the driver for VSX, including earlier prototypes. He says the driver was "engineered with the goal in mind".

He didn't bother reading through the whole thread and didn't catch that Steven Slate already said something different that contradicts him :roll: When someone brought up M&O Beryllium Acoustic headphones, which look just like VSX, but are equipped with bluetooth, Slate responded that these bluetooth headphones are "probably" using a different beryllium driver (so it's possible apparently), because the one they use "is so new to the market" and "besides the Beryllium driver and casing, everything is custom".

So the driver is not custom apparently. But I think it is no coincidence that there are other brands who used to or still do sell headphones that not only share the same casing, but also come in combination with beryllium drivers. RBH discontinued their product in 2018. I'm not sure, but I believe that they are behind this design. HP-2 went through some redesign process, but the dropped the project and never realesed it. Then rebranded versions started coming out (also with custom mods, like in case of M&O).

So I'm not sure if what is being told about how they designed these headphones has something to do with facts :neutral: VSX can still sound great tho. The sound quality and their software has literally nothing to do with anything I just said. In fact, RBH HP-2 had really good reviews, people seem to really like the low end in these headphones.

That makes me wonder if Slates patent pending APS actually does something for the sound or they just use "patent pending" to make this product sound innovative (pretty common in marketing).

If the driver and casing are not custom, then they were not designed for this APS technology. So what exactly they had to do in order to make this work? laser cut 2 holes I guess. Sometimes simple and random ideas can give unexpected results tho.

Post

Does anybody know about getting replacement parts ? Most common things on cans to die first are the ear cups, then the headband can get pretty gross from extended use so it would be interesting to know if at least you can get replacement cups that are affordable (getting 3rd party ones would probably alter the soundstage so not really an option) ? Headbands I've found a work around by using seatbelt pads that fit around the headband with velcro and I can just wash once a month

I would get a set to try but with Thomann offering no returns (likely due to covid) it would be an expensive trial if it turned out I didn't like them and at the moment it's not worth the financial risk so I'll probably hang by until a sale and people have been using them a while to give better feedback on whether they're worth the investment

Post

If you are both coming from AKG, then I think there are lots of options that would have be a step up for mixing. I don't think they are the flattest and the concensus when I've looked into this in depth before was they were not the best for mixing accurately...

Pretty sure all these would be better already than AKG
sennheiser hd600/800
focal spirit pro
beyerdynamic dt 1990

** caveat blah blah ** I understand that headphones are a minefield at the best of times, and that even peoples ear shape can affect what they hear.
DT 1990 havent tested but other BD DT's were not very good I tested. Focals, havent tested.

K712Pro went straight over HD600 and HD650, and cost less. Much more detail and not so shrilling top end plus bass is much clearer.
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar AUDIO, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

Post

_leras wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:00 am Sorry, but I think hype is strong in those one. A lot of what is being described can already be done with an eq curve/sonarworks and one of the waves products abbey road studio or Nx, both about $30.

The one thing that this slate thing has is that they only need to calibrate this one model of headphones, and perhaps the beryllium allows for a more consistent eq correction curve. Catering for one headphone model would simplify things considerably, but it's pretty expensive. I would say it it sounds brave/sensible if they have pushed for a non hyped top end to the headphone EQ response, and that should make it easier to correct. One thing with sonarworks is they definitely recommend having individual pairs of headphones calibrated to provide a matched EQ curve.

I've had really great results this year with beyerdynamic 1990 and first sonarworks and more recently an oratory eq correction using the excellent Curve EQ, followed by waves abbey road studios. So I firmly believe this can be done and get great translation.

The one comment that has really grabbed me here is, "once you adjust to the phasey sound you can work well". That sounds pretty ropey... And the "if the world can have these phones as a standard", cmon you've gotta be sucked into the marketing hype to push that this new set of, apparently hard to drive headphones, either deserves to be a standard or is probably better than many quality phones around that price point.

I believe this can already done very well and fairly cheaply with a good e.g. oratory correction curve and waves abbey road studios. So I'm sure this slate thing can also do it, but at some cost and apparently with some phasing issue you have to work past. I honestly think that sounds like a step backwards from what I'm already doing.
This was my first "gut" reaction too (but unlike you I absolutely don't like Sonarworks at all.. whatever EQ/filter they use, it sounds really bad). I've invested more than a decade (!!) in calibrating my headphone listening environment as I've always been interested in going fully headphone dependent.. this would allow me to carry my studio with me, all the time anywhere.

But I'm not afraid of saying this: I was wrong. Whatever VSX is doing, it's doing it well. As I've been saying, the proof is in the pudding. Once you know the system and have adjusted to it, you can start mixing. I've been adjusting to my other headphones for years, yet never got so effortless translation. I'm seeing this mix translation benefit also in my synth preset creation too. Anything that needs basic balancing has been sped up a lot.

Am I faster with VSX than my actual studio? No. I have a really well treated room at work and 15 years of experience in that room.. VSX can't compete with that yet, but it's not far off.. and that by itself is remarkable!

Of course all of this is very subjective but this is my honest to <insert preferred deity here> experience and opinion as of this writing.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

Post

Jet Set wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:34 pm So - a quick pop them on/take them off demo might not do it.
I'd say the absolute minimum proper demo is running VSX for at least one week and you absolutely 100% must do MIXING on them (or sound design). The whole point of the system is translation. That is what you purchase mainly, not just a pair of decent headphones and some software.

Mixing -> VSX -> real world translation. That's how the marketing should look. Simple and to the point.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

Post

bmanic wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:39 pm This was my first "gut" reaction too (but unlike you I absolutely don't like Sonarworks at all.. whatever EQ/filter they use, it sounds really bad). I've invested more than a decade (!!) in calibrating my headphone listening environment as I've always been interested in going fully headphone dependent.. this would allow me to carry my studio with me, all the time anywhere.

But I'm not afraid of saying this: I was wrong. Whatever VSX is doing, it's doing it well. As I've been saying, the proof is in the pudding. Once you know the system and have adjusted to it, you can start mixing. I've been adjusting to my other headphones for years, yet never got so effortless translation. I'm seeing this mix translation benefit also in my synth preset creation too. Anything that needs basic balancing has been sped up a lot.
I'm glad it's working for you. I do understand that striving to find a decent way to be able to work on headphones. I landed on a combination that worked really well this year with the dt 1990s.

And, I do have Sonarworks but have switched completely to a correction curve using Crave EQ. Sonarworks corrected to a reasonable room and I think it translated pretty well, but yeah did something slightly odd to the sound, so wasn't as nice to work with. I think I saw you said you also have beyerdynamic dt 1990 so I'll put the Crave EQ preset below.

The 'room' part of this room/speaker emulation I've been using is Waves Abbey Road Studios - but - on a project this year (which I had to do on headphones) I quite happily switched between having this on and off and just the eq curve correction when mixing. I think it's pretty good for this and gives a nice vibe - but I use it really just help check spatial and if anything is popping out unexpectedly.

It would be nice if VSX could work with existing headphones as I have loved to try the dt1 990 with their correction room/speaker emulation I can see the advantages of only need to marry up to a single consistent pair of headphones, much easier than trying to cover all the variations out there. The cynic in me also thinks they couldn't package up the headphones with a mark up...

(I'm probably being unfairly cynical - but the headphones do not look like they compare favourably to the dt 1990. I did see on the GS thread that some headphones had issues, ok that's fine, but it shows they are definitely not taking individual headphone measurements to calibrate if worse issues are not being spotted).

Crave EQ preset to correct Beyerdynamic dt 1990 headphones to oratory curves
just save from below the line as e.g. dt1990.ceq
======================================
Frequency #0: 90
Frequency #1: 220
Frequency #10: 4214.02194722896
Frequency #11: 9573.65003550066
Frequency #2: 1500
Frequency #3: 2700
Frequency #4: 3700
Frequency #5: 5500
Frequency #6: 6399.99999999999
Frequency #7: 7350
Frequency #8: 8350
Frequency #9: 15000
Gain #0: 4
Gain #1: -3.4
Gain #10: 3.9915647447063
Gain #11: 2.3203884252805
Gain #2: -1
Gain #3: -1.1
Gain #4: 2.6
Gain #5: -1.5
Gain #6: 2.9
Gain #7: -5.8
Gain #8: -7.3
Gain #9: -6
Gain Compensation Enabled: off
Input Gain: 0
Input Left: 0
Input Mid: 0
Input Right: 0
Input Side: 0
Output Gain: 0
Output Left: 0
Output Mid: 0
Output Right: 0
Output Side: 0
Preset Analysis: off
Preset Channel Processing: on
Preset Filter Bands: on
Preset Filter Scale: off
Preset Input Gain: on
Preset Output Gain: on
Preset Phase Model: on
Processing Channel Mode: LR
Processing Phase Relationship: Transparent
Q #0: 0.7
Q #1: 0.7
Q #10: 9.08127561163788
Q #11: 22.0725108215186
Q #2: 3
Q #3: 6
Q #4: 4
Q #5: 4
Q #6: 7
Q #7: 5
Q #8: 3.5
Q #9: 1
Shape #0: Low Shelf
Shape #1: Peaking
Shape #10: Peaking
Shape #11: Peaking
Shape #2: Peaking
Shape #3: Peaking
Shape #4: Peaking
Shape #5: Peaking
Shape #6: Peaking
Shape #7: Peaking
Shape #8: Peaking
Shape #9: High Shelf

Post

Unfortunately I don't have the DT1990 but rather the classic (and quite horrible) DT990 Pro, though I've EQd those quite successfully. I also have AKG K701 originals (the made in Austria ones), AKG K271, AKG 240 originals, Bose various models, Auditechnica m50x, Senheiser HD600 (now long since broken), Sennheiser HD25 etc. Heck I even have my old Beyerdynamic 531 somewhere. Also had a pair of LCD-X on loan for about 2 months but I hated the way they sat on my head. Sounds was sublime though but on headphones, comfort trumps sound quality every time. As you can see, I've gone through the literal mud of headphone exploration. :D

I used to do manual calibration of headphones back in the day.. long before Sonarworks or Morphit.. or anything else like that. Speaking of which, I just got reminded by the master David Griesinger (the dude behind classic Lexicon reverbs and a whole host of other incredibly impressive inventions!) that calibrating manually might not have been a bad idea at all.

Check this out:



Anyhow, I absolutely agree with you on the VSX software thing! I really think they would get a lot more sales for it if they'd add some generic compensation curves for other headphones. I mean the VSX Headphones themselves are pretty decent but definitely nothing super extraordinary.. though in this price bracket, if we assume the software itself is like 150$ it's still a good deal, but it is not competition for higher end headphones in my opinion. Also, I'm unsure of exactly what the little analogue additional board does in the headphones. I've done some tinkering and VSX seems to do a bit more than simple EQ curve compensation + room IR. Not exactly sure though.

Also, while the VSX headphones are comfortable, they are not on the level of Beyerdynamic or AKG (higher end K series).. again, this is completely subjective of course. I assume Slate is going to produce a higher end variant at some point. It would be silly not to, considering how good the reception of VSX has been.

A final pointer: If your mixes already translate well then there is very little to gain from VSX as translation is the whole point of the setup. No need to replace something that already does exactly the same.

The closest I ever got was with my AKG K701 + Morphit + CanOpener. I was "almost there".. but still had some issues with translation that VSX has now surpassed. This is indeed the first solution where I'm truly confident in what I am hearing, in terms of overall mix balance. It's also affected the speed that I work. Some other people have touched upon this in the Gearslutz thread; you somehow get less lost in detailed work and will thus be sculpting the overall balance and picture a lot quicker. I suspect one reason for this is the slight lack of instant detail and clarity, which is a real blessing and curse with a good pair of headphones. Same at the studio.. I hear every single detail so ridiculously clearly that I sometimes get stuck obsessing over things that truly do not matter in the overall picture. VSX has sort of cured me of this.. for better or worse.

Cheers!
bM
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

Post

Oh I also tested SonarWorks with various models I listed, that was way too phasey for my ears, but I adjusted very fast to VSX to my surprise. I hear some phasing when changing speakers but it is way less than what sonarworks did. Thankfully I didnt order AKG's from them in the end. Needs much better quality and VSX has it.

I have both AKG and VSX here in use now, though still going through with listening period on VSX now. I want to listen and listen, so much new sound information revealed from my favourite songs!

bManic, I found VSX's are more comfortable than K712Pro's which are quite comfortable for me.
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar AUDIO, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

Post

legendCNCD wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:34 am
If you are both coming from AKG, then I think there are lots of options that would have be a step up for mixing. I don't think they are the flattest and the concensus when I've looked into this in depth before was they were not the best for mixing accurately...

Pretty sure all these would be better already than AKG
sennheiser hd600/800
focal spirit pro
beyerdynamic dt 1990

** caveat blah blah ** I understand that headphones are a minefield at the best of times, and that even peoples ear shape can affect what they hear.
DT 1990 havent tested but other BD DT's were not very good I tested. Focals, havent tested.

K712Pro went straight over HD600 and HD650, and cost less. Much more detail and not so shrilling top end plus bass is much clearer.
I have to quote myself but this is subjective. I went through A LOT of "really good" headphones which were way too shrill (DT770/880 and 600) or completely tilted to bass (Sony "this is super") etc. until I found balance around K712Pro and HD650.
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar AUDIO, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

Post

Writing and arranging ITB with VSX tonight...new electro track.

Just listening to the drums and bass on the big NRG remains an absolute pleasure.

Using the NRG nearfields for sound design. They are so clean and clear.

This is now part of my work process and I don’t think I could ever go back to Abbey Road and Sonarworks.

Post

legendCNCD wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:29 pm I have to quote myself but this is subjective. I went through A LOT of "really good" headphones which were way too shrill (DT770/880 and 600) or completely tilted to bass (Sony "this is super") etc. until I found balance around K712Pro and HD650.
I think it is subjective and different headphones seem to work for different people. I really like my 650 for listening, but I felt they never quite worked for mixing (compared at the time to my monitors)

Got to say if there's one thing I take from this is that I really wonder why none of the big names haven't just included an eq circuit to fit a headphone to a 'perfect' reference curve for listening. I guess they are pushing this smooth detailed top end from stiffer, lighter new materials, which as bmanic mentioned above can lead to an in accurate view of accurate. I.e. these are so detailed how can they not be accurate!

Post

_leras wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:37 pm
dt 1990
Hey have you tried Realphones? I am just trying out the DT1990 and realphones since they got reported to work really well together and so far I've been very impressed with the sound. It really feels at times that the sound is coming from my speakers. I could try your eq curve but I have DMG Equilibrium. I am actually getting Slate VSX also next week and will compare to this setup, but at the moment I am very pleased with the dt1990+realphones combo.

Also I am very skeptical of the idea of paying so much for the heaphones which are made to work only with the software(VSX), which isn't even properly made system-wide atleast yet. And the reported "cheap" feeling of the model, but if the sound quality is very impressive I might change my mind..

Post

Listening to FSOL - My Kingdom (EP) with these is just pure joy, using Archon studio midfields. Oh man.
I also did a quick mix now, got it to translate MUCH better from Sony XM3's, phone and my Cambridge Audio One's. Overall bass was in much better line than before and thats where my most of problems have been.

Good stuff.
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar AUDIO, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

Post

turrikaani wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 am
_leras wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:37 pm
dt 1990
Hey have you tried Realphones? I am just trying out the DT1990 and realphones since they got reported to work really well together and so far I've been very impressed with the sound. It really feels at times that the sound is coming from my speakers. I could try your eq curve but I have DMG Equilibrium. I am actually getting Slate VSX also next week and will compare to this setup, but at the moment I am very pleased with the dt1990+realphones combo.

Also I am very skeptical of the idea of paying so much for the heaphones which are made to work only with the software(VSX), which isn't even properly made system-wide atleast yet. And the reported "cheap" feeling of the model, but if the sound quality is very impressive I might change my mind..
No, sorry - haven't tried Realphones. Seems to have the two things needed: EQ correction to a 'perfect' room, and some kind of room ambiance.

The preset for Crave EQ just comes from here, there are a bunch of correction curves for many headphones:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wi ... of_presets

I can't praise the dt 1990 enough, high quality build, super responsive/dynamic - they do have a big bump around 7-8k which fine great for listening, but easily removed by EQ for mixing, pretty flat otherwise. (I think I said around 10k somewhere above, but actually 7-8k)

Post

And I can vouch for Oratory's headphone profiles/EQ curves. That guy is an absolute legend and a true professional and authority when it comes to measuring headphones (much more so than I think some music companies like Sonarworks or even Toneboosters).

So yeah, agree with leras 100%. Good solid headphones + Oratory's curves (+ any good crossfeed plugin) = solid workhorse for almost any situation.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”