Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

[crickey13]

This one sounds Autechry.

[The Nerdy Music Guy]

Yeah, it does a little bit, I think. I think it's the FM in combination with the comb filter that pushes it a little bit into Autrecheland.

[MorpherX]

Bug in MSEG in latest Nightly builds:

If you draw sudden jumps like saws in mseg and modulate morph with wavetable osc, there are pops, crackles and clicks at the jump points. This way the mseg is not useable.

[Halonmusic]

Following you The Nerdy Music Guy. (on Soundcloud)Really enjoy your sound designs!

[EvilDragon]

Bug in MSEG in latest Nightly builds:

If you draw sudden jumps like saws in mseg and modulate morph with wavetable osc, there are pops, crackles and clicks at the jump points. This way the mseg is not useable.

Hmmm I don't get that over here. Example patch?

(But also, sharp discontinuities are bound to create pops in certain cases, it is known. )

[MorpherX]

Bug in MSEG in latest Nightly builds:

If you draw sudden jumps like saws in mseg and modulate morph with wavetable osc, there are pops, crackles and clicks at the jump points. This way the mseg is not useable.

 

Hmmm I don't get that over here. Example patch?

(But also, sharp discontinuities are bound to create pops in certain cases, it is known. )

 

Here is an example.
The strange is that if you load the same wavetable with the same MSEG in "window-rectangle" and modulate morph, there are NO pops and clicks at the jump-corners.
If I use the a same MSEG with the same wavetable in Serum there are also no pops and clicks.
Would be nice for all users of Surge if this could be fixed !!!

- - Why I can not upload a .fxp file ?????? - - This forum features are from stone-time !
I have now added this example preset "Jumping Pad" to the product page here under "Products - Surge"

[EvilDragon]

ZIP the FXP please. Or join our Discord and drop it there in #help or #using-surge.


EDIT: OK just checked the patch. Yeah I don't think MSEG is at fault here, you get the same artifact if you jump quickly from 100% morph to 0% while a note is played, or by using host automation.

So this would be down to Surge's wavetable interpolation/DAC emulation algorithm. And we are not going to change that.

It doesn't happen in Window mode because Window mode doesn't do any interpolation. Serum also doesn't do any interpolation between wavetable frames.

[mrdoghead]

Surge currently uses Lato for everything and it's sadly not that easy to change that.

Cool, thanks... curiously, the lowercase a and e in lato really bug me visually, particularly the 'a', note how squished the 'closed-circular' (for lack of knowing the real term) part is here, versus in the image which was posted by ENVI.
lato.png

I prefer the Lato by miles compared to the disaster of a font you posted in the UI image if the waveform window. My hat is off to the person who picked it.

That said, why fret so much about the font (whether you find it "squished" and prefer mushy mushy slop renderings of the letter a or not)? It is readable, it is used throughout. Isn't this a low-priority job at best?

[MorpherX]

ZIP the FXP please. Or join our Discord and drop it there in #help or #using-surge.


EDIT: OK just checked the patch. Yeah I don't think MSEG is at fault here, you get the same artifact if you jump quickly from 100% morph to 0% while a note is played, or by using host automation.

So this would be down to Surge's wavetable interpolation/DAC emulation algorithm. And we are not going to change that.

It doesn't happen in Window mode because Window mode doesn't do any interpolation. Serum also doesn't do any interpolation between wavetable frames.

This means that it will never be possible to use jumping MSEGs with modulating morph ?
I don't think that this will be last word. At some time there will be a good C++ programmer which will improve that interpolation mode or add a new one.
In Hive 1.2/2 for example jumping morph is no problem, even with morph modes.

[The Nerdy Music Guy]

The DAC emulation only happens on "low quality" wavetables. Jumping around in higher quality wavetables works just fine
There will be more high quality wavetables in the final 1.8 release.

[The Nerdy Music Guy]

Data Broth streamed an improvised sound design session using the latest Surge nightly yesterday and came up with some really cool sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54gYoJx6NFM

[EvilDragon]

ZIP the FXP please. Or join our Discord and drop it there in #help or #using-surge.


EDIT: OK just checked the patch. Yeah I don't think MSEG is at fault here, you get the same artifact if you jump quickly from 100% morph to 0% while a note is played, or by using host automation.

So this would be down to Surge's wavetable interpolation/DAC emulation algorithm. And we are not going to change that.

It doesn't happen in Window mode because Window mode doesn't do any interpolation. Serum also doesn't do any interpolation between wavetable frames.

This means that it will never be possible to use jumping MSEGs with modulating morph ?
I don't think that this will be last word. At some time there will be a good C++ programmer which will improve that interpolation mode or add a new one.
In Hive 1.2/2 for example jumping morph is no problem, even with morph modes.

Then by all means, keep on using Hive for stuff like that. That miracle C++ programmer who would add a completely new wavetable interpolation mode might or might not ever appear, and we have plenty other important things to deal with in the meantime.

[ENV1]

I have a request.

Background: I just tried to transfer a really really cool notch bass i made on Helm to Surge and failed miserably with regards to the waveform because Surges sub-oscs are hard-tied to the pitch of their respective main-osc, i.e. i cannot set the main to -12 to have both main and sub at the same octave nor can i set the main to -24 to have the sub 1 octave higher. (Which is exactly what i need.)

Maybe something can be done here? Perhaps an option similar to what Deducktion has, where you can set the subs semi/fine on the OSC tab when SubAltMode is enabled? That would be way cool because you just cant get the same results with 2 main oscillators that you get with main+sub.

(Also, as sort of the icing on the cake, what would be absolutely great is a selection of different waveforms for the subs. Helms sub is a good example here, plus it is open source, so the code is already there.)

But as a start, maybe you could simply decouple sub pitch from main pitch and give the subs their own octave or semi/fine controls. That would already be very helpful.

Thanks.

[EvilDragon]

Sub-oscillator is built into the Classic oscillator's waveform shaping itself (don't consider it as a proper standalone sub oscillator, it's more of a parameter used to reshape the waveform by sending impulses into the BLIT stream). Changing this is far from trivial, and I don't see it easily happening, so it makes more sense to use a second oscillator if you want a fully flexible sub. Yes, you won't get phase locking this way, but it's what is there, today.

Helm's oscillator code is not compatible with Surge's Classic oscillator code, so nothing there that we could lift and shoehorn in... Entirely different design. We could add it as a separate oscillator type, but dunno I'm kinda meh about it, plus we have some other ideas for oscillators down the road.

(On the other hand, there's actually a chance that custom fonts for skins might happen for 1.8, if related niggles on Windows/Linux are straightened out in time!)

[ENV1]

I see.

Well thats too bad.

Like i said, it doesnt work with 2 main oscs, if it did it would be simple.

Just so you see what i mean i have attached the Helm preset. Use Helms Import Bank feature in the browser to import it. (Dont worry, ive given the bank a unique name so it wont touch your existing stuff.) Then do this:

- Hold something like A2 to get the arpeggio going
- In the mixer, drag the SUB slider down to 0
- Slowly drag it back up to 250

You will hear how it almost takes on a FMish kind of character as you get closer to 250. (In Helm you can actually use Osc2 on -12 as well to achieve the same sound.) But try this in Surge and you will certainly fail because you will never get the final waveform right, even with retrigger enabled on both oscs. Using the sub instead of a 2nd main osc will get you a lot closer, but it still wont be right since unlike in the Helm preset the square will be the lower octave and the saw the higher, i.e. the opposite of how it should be. And that matters.

PS: Dont just play a sustained note, i.e. dont turn off the arp. Otherwise you would need to retrigger after dragging up the SUB slider from 0 for the phase to be right.

NotchBassDemo.zip