Why you left Bitwig?

[pdxindy]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

All recent updates have been about adding modulators, modules, the grid, plugins—that sort of thing. While these are awesome if you are into experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness, if your goal is to finish tracks then a lot of these features are actually not that useful.

Adding wavetables (something Live has) is not about experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness. And the new EQ from the previous update IS a bread and butter feature.

3.3 adds the ability to stretch audio and midi clips, events and automation and much improved fades, AVX2 optimized audio engine, faster sample loading, and the new Sections Page which are all basic workflow improvements.

All recent updates are a combination of bread-and-butter improvements and cool new stuff. Not as you suggest only about the 'cool' stuff.

[apoclypse]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

All recent updates have been about adding modulators, modules, the grid, plugins—that sort of thing. While these are awesome if you are into experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness, if your goal is to finish tracks then a lot of these features are actually not that useful.

Adding wavetables (something Live has) is not about experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness. And the new EQ from the previous update IS a bread and butter feature.

3.3 adds the ability to stretch audio and midi clips, events and automation and much improved fades, AVX2 optimized audio engine, faster sample loading, and the new Sections Page which are all basic workflow improvements.

All recent updates are a combination of bread-and-butter improvements and cool new stuff. Not as you suggest only about the 'cool' stuff.

One thing I like about Bitwig is that when they finally do implement some bread and butter feature they usually do something cool with it. Like the way they handle fades in 3.3 is pretty slick imo.

However they also seems to revel in doing things different for the sake of being different some times.

[pdxindy]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

All recent updates have been about adding modulators, modules, the grid, plugins—that sort of thing. While these are awesome if you are into experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness, if your goal is to finish tracks then a lot of these features are actually not that useful.

Adding wavetables (something Live has) is not about experimental glitchy unpredictable sonic randomness. And the new EQ from the previous update IS a bread and butter feature.

3.3 adds the ability to stretch audio and midi clips, events and automation and much improved fades, AVX2 optimized audio engine, faster sample loading, and the new Sections Page which are all basic workflow improvements.

All recent updates are a combination of bread-and-butter improvements and cool new stuff. Not as you suggest only about the 'cool' stuff.

One thing I like about Bitwig is that when they finally do implement some bread and butter feature they usually do something cool with it. Like the way they handle fades in 3.3 is pretty slick imo.

However they also seems to revel in doing things different for the sake of being different some times.

Yeah, sometimes the standard way works great...

And of course we all would like it if they could somehow do double the new features/improvements each update!

[tooneba]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

If Live does what Bitwig can do why would they jump ship?... You have to give them incentive to discard their existing project files and flexibility of popular save file type. If you want to convince people to change their DAW you need huge advantage on top of basic things. I think they are just building unique advantage before they add basic things.

[EnGee]

Bitwig is adding all the "beyond" imagination features to the DAW, but adding a midi review for midi files by selecting a midi file in the browser and routing it to the selected instrument, is "beyond" difficult! (Live is not better). This is the main reason that I left those DAWs and returned to Cubase/S1.

They are wonderful DAWs (Bitwig and Live), but I need this small feature so I can browse the kits/patterns I have till I find something near to what I want! The trend is though, to make your own beats. Oh, and what if I use third party drums. No luck finding a mapping and just use it (Battery 4?). I don't use MPE and don't even use Aftertouch! The music I like doesn't do such huge amount of modulations! But, I do use a score editor sometimes. Anyway, maybe it is not the DAW, it is just me became old fashioned and "beyond" repaired

[Scoox]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

Which bread'n'butter features is Bitwig missing?

Hold my beer...

• Step input like in Live
• Better keyboard navigation
• Bitwig commander can search multiple strings out of order but the browser can't
• Settings > User Interface > Contrast cannot see result as background grayed out
• Cannot rename devices with Ctrl+R or via context menu, should work like tracks
• Allow rectangular selection in Drum Editor to start below notes
• Cursors too thick
• Custom keyboard macros (sequences of commands, like in S1)
  simple way to send MIDI back to assigned MIDI hardware controls as standard & without the need to write scripts (like in S1)
• Piano roll vertical keyboard velocity sensitive notes depending on click position
• Drum editor allow vertical zoom
• Drum editor allow audition notes by clicking pitch headers along left margin rather than having to click a tiny speaker icon which is much harder to aim for
• Use modifier to adjust selected note velocity by click-and drag on note
• Click empty area of piano roll to set new note lenght = grid size, click existing note to make new note lenght = length of last clicked note
• Allow unlimited polyphony (or certainly higher polyphony, maybe make it user-defined) when auditioning multiple notes (currently the maximum number of simultaneous notes is 4)
• Ctrl+LMB edits plugin parameter, Alt+LMB renames. Use the same modifier for both.
• Custom metronome click and tick sounds, and ability to adjust metronome 'tick' volume relative to main metronome clicks
• Make MIDI record quantization settings available from toolbar rather than putting them in Settings
• Audio and midi take recording system
• Option for vertical 'info panel' like in Ableton, much quicker to scan visually especially lists
• Arranger mini-view at top like in Ableton Live and FL Studio, height should be adjustable
• Ability to select grouped children tracks with Shift+Click when selecting parent (currently only same level tracks are selected)
• Ability to scroll mixer using mouse wheel
• Ability to resize faders
• Allow resizing mixer height without limitations. Currently, the mixer height is limited to the minimum height that is able to accommodate all mixer inserts.
• Sends as slots that can be added/removed. Currently every track has a a knob for every send, even if it's not using the send. This creates a lot of clutter.
• Ability to resize sends section height in mixer so it doesn't occupy so much vertical space
• Ctrl+A, then Delete fails to delete all tracks because Master track is selected. Allow deletion and ignore master track.
• Selected tracks in Arranger are hard to tell apart from non-selected tracks when
• Arranger not focused (need more contrast, ideally don't change color at all)
• More intuitive layout selection options buttons in Dual Window mode.
• Show all Bitwig windows when any Bitwig window clicked/focused.
• Ability to pick grid size from a list that shows all values rather than click-drag using the mouse
• MSEG modulator
• Global modulators (to allow modulating parameters across different tracks)
• Ghost/alias clips
• Automation clips (like in Reaper, FL Studio, Logic, etc)
• Groove pool like in Ableton (source), plus the ability to automate groove parameters

There are more, probably, these are the ones I have personally requested directly to Bigwig by email. I actually keep a list of things I've requested/reported so I can keep track, again, another reason why relying on email for user feedback is a bad system. People discuss ideas on the forum but I'm not sure Bitwig read those.

[Scoox]

I don't use MPE and don't even use Aftertouch! The music I like doesn't do such huge amount of modulations!:hihi:

It's good those features are available, but I suspect most users hardly ever use them.

[machinesworking]

I don't use MPE and don't even use Aftertouch! The music I like doesn't do such huge amount of modulations!:hihi:

It's good those features are available, but I suspect most users hardly ever use them.

I use them all the time. In fact considering Bitwig got a reputation early for implementing MPE correctly, and the touch screen keyboard is essentially a Linnstrument, you might be very mistaken about that.

[antic604]

Hold my beer...

Good list!

[Rivanni]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

I think they are just building unique advantage before they add basic things.

You said it right. The basics are missing. You can build the most beautiful house but with a bad foundation it will not hold.

I think what Scoox meant is that if Bitwig added features Live has in addition to the unique things Bitwig has, Live users might jump ship sooner. Same for basic features from other DAWs.

[Scoox]

I don't use MPE and don't even use Aftertouch! The music I like doesn't do such huge amount of modulations!:hihi:

It's good those features are available, but I suspect most users hardly ever use them.

I use them all the time. In fact considering Bitwig got a reputation early for implementing MPE correctly, and the touch screen keyboard is essentially a Linnstrument, you might be very mistaken about that.

It's true that if they had plans to implement these features (MPE, modulators, the grid, etc) it's better to factor them in from the start, which they did, otherwise they are harder to add later down the line. I don't have a problem with that, but I'm afraid Bitwig are putting more effort into being different and innovative while some basic features are still work-in-progress. YMMV but that's basically the reason I'm not buying Bitwig yet, because it's missing some features I regularly use which other DAWs already have.

[Scoox]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

If Live does what Bitwig can do why would they jump ship?... You have to give them incentive to discard their existing project files and flexibility of popular save file type. If you want to convince people to change their DAW you need huge advantage on top of basic things. I think they are just building unique advantage before they add basic things.

I was under the impression Bitwig was meant to be a "Live killer". Live as a more mature program and does many things very well but it also has some limitations. Both programs have catching up to do with each other, but I think we all agree Bitwig updates tend to be more exciting than Ableton's.

If Bitwig does everything Live does, and then more, bigger, faster and better, then Live users would probably consider switching. I recently read on Ableton's forum that Bitwig could 3 times the number of Diva instances Live could run, and some users were very intrigued. Stability, efficiency, ergonomics, neat little features that enhance the overall UX are a deal-breaker for many of us. I use FL Studio and, sure, it does everything and more, but it's a huge UX mess, so I'm looking for a DAW that can do more or less the same stuff and offers a workflow that doesn't make me want to shoot my DAW in the face. Live has its share of limitations and issues and I have no doubt some users are constantly on the lookout for greener pastures.

The BW 3.3 update adds a wavetable module and Polymer. That's all great and well but Bitwig is beginning to look like a virtual modular synth with a built-in DAW, rather than the other way around. Since I already use IMO very capable third-party synths, my sound synthesis needs are (and have been for a long time) well covered. Hopefully this trend won't continue indefinitely. In short, I want the DAW side of Bitwig to get more attention.

[xbitz]

^^^ +1 I also would like to see a feature-rich DAW with an inbuilt modulator framework on top of a pattern-based architecture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvyM40 ... nnel=xbitz
Cubase +Nora+MUX

so a modernized Cakewalk Project 5 ... or an FL Studio minus the mentioned "UX mess", I'm also curious about the Mulab 9(with clip launcher) too .. but the best would be a usable Bitwig

ps. a usable Reason also would be nice

[Reefius]

So basically we need Bitwig as a plugin, so it can be used in other DAWs

[pdxindy]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

If Live does what Bitwig can do why would they jump ship?... You have to give them incentive to discard their existing project files and flexibility of popular save file type. If you want to convince people to change their DAW you need huge advantage on top of basic things. I think they are just building unique advantage before they add basic things.

The Bitwig devs do both... They develop their own unique system and also add basic workflow stuff. It all just takes time. Obviously, if Bitwig doesn't suit a particular user as is, they should use something else.