U-he Hardware - CVilization Eurorack Module

[pekbro]

Neither do I, but if you add a rating that people don't agree with, typically they will be compelled
to add their own rating. Just like with plugins...

*Well there you go, we can say that at least 2 out of 3 people are very satisfied with this module
so far, which is pretty good.

[pekbro]

Ok I've got it now. Though stymied by impatience and frustration, I get the logic of the UI
and will acquiesce that it is not difficult to understand. I am still not of the opinion that
it was particularly necessary to implement it as such, vs the typical alpha numeric display,
but whatever...

I would also say I find it difficult at times to distinguish between similar colors, quite often
I have to rely on the previous or following colors for identification. I have not tried any
alternative color schemes as yet.

Anyway, believe it or not, I would not have said anything if I was not such a huge fan of
the company.

-Cheers

*What you should do is make it so you can chain 2 of them together and code your own digital
display utilizing the 16 encoders.

[vurt]

well you should say, urs wants feedback.

and just because the other 2 votes out of 3 disagree with you, it doesnt make you wrong of course, its opinions, they'll differ

i kind of see what you mean regards similar colours, i guess that can be an issue.

[pekbro]

I don't mean to be unreasonable, I just can't really agree that it's a good thing that this module requires you to learn and maintain it's own private visual language that's unique amongst literally, everything else on the planet. There is a cost in focus there, one that will require some people to always have that cheat sheet in front of them. A lot of modular users are quite frankly in an age group where their memory for such things is not so good, at a minimum, many of us are at least headed in that direction. Bling is nice and all, but...

Anyway, no worries I'm done complaining about it.

-Cheers

[Urs]

It surely has been a highly experimental concept. It certainly does not work for everybody.

Thing is, a display would require us to have fewer encoders or a much larger form factor and cost. Fewer encoders means a slower workflow and no option to show 8 steps of a sequence at once. Larger form factor and cost would make this module unaffordable and less attractive on the side of cost vs. functions.

I'm using it most of the time with alternative colours that I personally find hard to distinguish - but better looking. We put a lot of thought into making CVilization less dependent on colours and more dependent on encoder positions (LE1-4, RE1-4). The main colours you need to memorize are the same 4 colours of the Mode LEDs on top (orange-green-blue-magenta). This brings one through the main functionality in Modes 1,2 and 4, and to some extent in 3.

Almost all other colour options can be deducted from encoder position. E.g. if you can memorize that the Quantisation Scales are on the top of the config pages, you can *see* that it's cyan. Thus, setting CV-B action to select scales is the cyan option. Likewise, Glide is light green, thus CV-B action to switch Glide is light green.

Maybe we need to communicate the concept better in which colours relate? The manual has a small section about it, and I think it covers most grounds, but it doesn't say much about the way colours relate between parameters and their respective values.

[pekbro]

TBH I hadn't really occurred to me to think of it as experimental. In light of that, things make much more sense. Perhaps I've missed it, or perhaps it's worth a little more explanation somewhere as to how and why the concept is as such. Additional explanations as to color and parameter inter-relation would be helpful as well no doubt.

Personally, I think that at least an initial idiot guide is helpful as well, where you do not offer the user any choices of what encoder to press or jack to use. It may seem silly, but the manual always offers the user too many choices in the very beginning. By choices, I mean LE 1-4 or Input 1-4, you never directly tell the user exactly what to do. If someone happens to be confused at the time, it's a good idea to be very literal in either a quick start guide or at the forefront of each section in the manual. Learn by example basically.

*To put it another way, I can't recall seeing any examples of a completed signal path from start to
finish. Anyway, you should never underestimate people's ability to crazily misinterpret seemingly
simple instruction.

[Urs]

Re Quickstart Guide, that is what the videos are for, but it takes 3 or 4 weeks to make one, and we couldn't start before the module was finished. Hence, most of them are still coming. We will certainly need to state more clearly that the Cheat Sheet is not a quick start guide.

Hehehe, I would not say it's an experimental module, but the initial idea was. Much of the past three years involved thinking about it, using it and perfecting it as we feel it to be right. However surely everybody has their own ways and needs, so we're happy to get some input.

We got a lot of feedback over the years already, which led us to drop some of the original concepts in favour of more original ones.

[pekbro]

In any event, I obviously experienced some frustration figuring out how this module worked, but that's
no longer an issue. Interestingly at the same time, I understood right away the workings of another
module that some users are finding deeply complex and difficult to understand. A module that has
literally 2 or 3k configurable parameters.

[vurt]

wtf?
i dont think ive got that many parameters on all my synths put together

did you ever try marbles pek?
when i won it a couple of years back here, id heard the hype, id seen a few vids.
took me ages to get my head round
then one day, i wasnt even at the modular, just sat here thinking about what id done the night before, and had an "aahhhh!" moment.

similar thing with maths (which tbh, im still not sure i fully understand).

but then conversely, my other mutable stuff, ive flown along with, no problems.

have you watched the videos that are available yet?
the first walkthrough one is especially good, the bit i couldnt picture in my mind was the 4 x 4 mixer.
i was using it ok, but then that graphic in the video, and boom! everything seemed more fluid from there.

i know thats not a bit you had a problem with, but maybe the videos will give you little hints like that, that open it up far more than youd expect from something so little

plus, hearing "the voice" say "20 octaves"

[Urs]

plus, hearing "the voice" say "20 octaves"

Wait till it says "the Wogglebug"

[vurt]

plus, hearing "the voice" say "20 octaves"

Wait till it says "the Wogglebug"

[pekbro]

wtf?
i dont think ive got that many parameters on all my synths put together

did you ever try marbles pek?
when i won it a couple of years back here, id heard the hype, id seen a few vids.
took me ages to get my head round
then one day, i wasnt even at the modular, just sat here thinking about what id done the night before, and had an "aahhhh!" moment.

similar thing with maths (which tbh, im still not sure i fully understand).

but then conversely, my other mutable stuff, ive flown along with, no problems.

have you watched the videos that are available yet?
the first walkthrough one is especially good, the bit i couldnt picture in my mind was the 4 x 4 mixer.
i was using it ok, but then that graphic in the video, and boom! everything seemed more fluid from there.

i know thats not a bit you had a problem with, but maybe the videos will give you little hints like that, that open it up far more than youd expect from something so little

plus, hearing "the voice" say "20 octaves"

No I haven't seen the videos as yet. Regarding the mutable stuff, for some reason I'm not
really interested in them. I dunno why, just doesn't do it for me. Part of it is that my
interest in digital modules is pretty narrow, although of all of them, marbles would fit in
that range the most. Part of it, is that seemingly everyone is using them, in both HW
and software. I guess I just like to be different. Also the sounds they seem to be good
for are not really to my liking for modular. E.g. the sparkly, bright, ethereal ambient
sounds. I like harsh, distorted, dark industrial for the most part.

*Not to mention, I already have 2 samplers...

[pekbro]

Hmm, I haven't tried it with Wogglebug yet, it works great with that 2000 parameter sequencer.
https://www.tmsynthesis.com/ the sequential switch and mucorder in particular.

[vurt]

fair enough, i only mentioned marbles (any mi stuff would do though really) as thry rely on a traffic light system, rather than alpha numerics.
and really, a 3 colour system should be easier, but for some reason, i couldnt get it.

ah! that seq! i remember you ordering it now through the kickstart. looks pretty cool and omg its british made
i didnt realise we had any euro manufacturers (or any manufacturer what so ever tbh).

and try the videos for sure, they are really clear walkthroughs.
although i am looking forward to the module specific ones myself too
at least with that, i know im understanding it instead of maybe just thinking i do, if it works as it does in the videos, im golden!!!

and yup, the seq switching is great with multiple sequences, especially out of time ones, an oscillator going from long drone notes to little trills of speed, then a slow but steady melody followed by maybe a slow sine wave, and loops round again with different timings for the switches great fun!!!

and mootating is also great.

[vurt]

oh my! think thats my longest post ever