Live 11 - Many bitter comments on their Facebook

[VariKusBrainZ]

They had to address the exodus to Bitwig, this was their reponse

[SLiC]

I suspect Logic adding a clip launcher may have also motivated them to get some much needed updates announced quickly.

[PieBerger]

I can think of so many other things to get angry about.. environmental destruction, totalitarian governments, poverty, climate change, racism, bigotry... Seems kind of ridiculous to get angry about a bloody software upgrade. Just don't buy it ffs...

/thread

[machinesworking]

I suspect Logic adding a clip launcher may have also motivated them to get some much needed updates announced quickly.

I suspect that has little to do with it. Competing against Logic is lose/lose in most departments, but certain things about Logic are odd or confusing enough to make a good amount of people not use it. Not matter how Apple tidy it up, the core of Logic is about learning it's UX ideas, any concepts you had about a DAW will get in the way of your experience etc.

Plus implementing MPE, tempo matching, comping etc. all of those are things end users wanted. They also can't just be tossed in last moment since when Logic 10.5 came out.

[pottering]

I haven’t checked all of the DAW prices recently but I’m fairly certain Ableton Suite is one of the most expensive, [...]

Actually not.
Disregarding the 'professional' flagships (Nuendo, Sequoia, Pro Tools Ultimate ..):
FL Studio All Plugins is 889 €
Tracktion Waveform Extreme is 749 USD
Suite is 599 € normally, 479 now
Cubase Pro is 559.99 € without Dongle (581,99 € with Dongle)
Pro Tools 559 € (Ultimate is 2,400 €)
Reason Suite is 549 €

Studio One is 396 €
Bitwig Studio is 379 €
Mixbus 32c is 368 € (well, that's really theoretically only)
Live Standard is 349 € (now 279 €)

And than there's Logic.

I’d argue that Suite is comparable to FL Signature rather than All Plugins, plus All Plugins is £400 right now. So basically there’s 1 DAW more expensive than Ableton Suite at regular price.

I'd argue Suite is comparable with All Plugins bundle, and Live Suite is also cheaper right now for everyone, as Lite is free for everyone on Splice, so upgrade from Lite is also available for everyone (412 € right now on Ableton's site, £383 when I change location to UK, maybe cheaper in 3rd party retailers).

[tooneba]

I feel bad, however, because a lot of these people are in fact from developing countries and just don't tons of money to spend and need to be very wise about any purchase. I wish there were a way for Ableton to provide a discount for them. I also think Live's bundles need an update - You need to purchase Suite to get the best of the built-ins, but a lot of producers don't need orchestral samples, etc.

It is nothing to do with my original post, but that is a good point. Suite comes with over 40GB of IDM type sample, retro drum machine, hip hop drums and orchestral samples. On top of that max for live license. Most people just need native devices and a few preferred sample packs.

[rod_zero]

I feel bad, however, because a lot of these people are in fact from developing countries and just don't tons of money to spend and need to be very wise about any purchase. I wish there were a way for Ableton to provide a discount for them. I also think Live's bundles need an update - You need to purchase Suite to get the best of the built-ins, but a lot of producers don't need orchestral samples, etc.

It is nothing to do with my original post, but that is a good point. Suite comes with over 40GB of IDM type sample, retro drum machine, hip hop drums and orchestral samples. On top of that max for live license. Most people just need native devices and a few preferred sample packs.

You might not know it but in Latin america if you buy Push you get Suite for free. This promotion is obviously hidden from first world countries.

[rod_zero]

The cognitive dissonance about this is out of this world.

First, Live or any audio software isn't a primary necessity for those doing music as a hobby.
Second, If your work depends on using this software you can discount its cost from your taxes.
Third, nobody needs the last version to be productive, people can skip versions.
Fourth, the company also needs to pay its employees.

There are companies with much more predatory practices as Protools or Apple it self, but a lot of people complaining are the same that have no problem giving their money to apple, go figure.

Enjoy and use what you have, making music should be what is fulfilling and brings you joy. If, as many people on 2020, you lost your job and can't afford the new version and feel aggravated by its release I think you have your priorities upside down, precisely because of the current situation you should be focusing on your well being probably getting therapy instead of complaining about 130 USD for a new version of live.

[tooneba]

The cognitive dissonance about this is out of this world.

First, Live or any audio software isn't a primary necessity for those doing music as a hobby.
Second, If your work depends on using this software you can discount its cost from your taxes.
Third, nobody needs the last version to be productive, people can skip versions.
Fourth, the company also needs to pay its employees.

There are companies with much more predatory practices as Protools or Apple it self, but a lot of people complaining are the same that have no problem giving their money to apple, go figure.

Enjoy and use what you have, making music should be what is fulfilling and brings you joy. If, as many people on 2020, you lost your job and can't afford the new version and feel aggravated by its release I think you have your priorities upside down, precisely because of the current situation you should be focusing on your well being probably getting therapy instead of complaining about 130 USD for a new version of live.

The point is everyone know people on 2020 lost job and they are company and need to pay its employee, so users are supportive. They just put middle finger to the group of people quite supportive and genuine. Your logic only works when you assumed people are dumb and evil. But reality is they aren’t. Hard to understand because of your cognitive dissonance?

[risome]

Its a major update of course it has to be paid for .So many great new features.Its excellent value for money.

[rod_zero]

The cognitive dissonance about this is out of this world.

First, Live or any audio software isn't a primary necessity for those doing music as a hobby.
Second, If your work depends on using this software you can discount its cost from your taxes.
Third, nobody needs the last version to be productive, people can skip versions.
Fourth, the company also needs to pay its employees.

There are companies with much more predatory practices as Protools or Apple it self, but a lot of people complaining are the same that have no problem giving their money to apple, go figure.

Enjoy and use what you have, making music should be what is fulfilling and brings you joy. If, as many people on 2020, you lost your job and can't afford the new version and feel aggravated by its release I think you have your priorities upside down, precisely because of the current situation you should be focusing on your well being probably getting therapy instead of complaining about 130 USD for a new version of live.

The point is everyone know people on 2020 lost job and they are company and need to pay its employee, so users are supportive. They just put middle finger to the group of people quite supportive and genuine. Your logic only works when you assumed people are dumb and evil. But reality is they aren’t. Hard to understand because of your cognitive dissonance?

In no way a new version is harmful to current users, they don't have to upgrade now or ever. The new version doesn't make the old one stop working, people can just ignore it and go on with their real problems.

Skip version 11 and get 12 in 4 years or 5 when all this has passed. Those who can afford it will decide if it is worth, but if some are putting money on software updates instead of eating or therapy that is beyond common sense, you can enjoy making music with Live 10, 9 and probably there is people still on 8.

[antic604]

Skip version 11 and get 12 in 4 years or 5 when all this has passed.

Why are you perpetuating this idea that Live updates every 4-5 years? It was like this only once and now they're at 3 years, very likely aiming at 2 years cycle down the road (I wouldn't mind, if they're big updates like 11 is).

[ReleaseCandidate]

Skip version 11 and get 12 in 4 years or 5 when all this has passed.

Why are you perpetuating this idea that Live updates every 4-5 years? It was like this only once...

Live 6: Sep 2006
Live 7: Nov 2007
Live 8: April 2009
Live 9: March 2013
Live 10: Feb 2018
You can still find the original press releases including prices and all at Ableton's site, like https://www.ableton.com/en/pages/press/ ... 06_09_29a/

[SLiC]

Having now had chance to use 11 for a short time I have to say I think it is superb, it’s like a new DAW for me. The 10.1 update and 11 pretty much give me everything I want, I honestly don’t know what I would need adding in terms of big new features, just improvements to what’s there (the browser etc) and make it snappier loading things.

11 has certainly caught up with Bitwig for headline features cancelling out some bitwig advantages like MPE and multi editing. It has retrospective midi, groove extract, audio to midi, automation curves etc and now comping, probability, scene follow actions etc. It’s certainly set a high bar for Bitwig 4

[revvy]

a lot of people complaining are the same that have no problem giving their money to apple, go figure.

Exactly. The only people allowed to complain are Live users who run Windows.