Apple announces new Mac Mini, Air + 13" MBP featuring their own M1 chip.

[Etienne1973]

top level arm macs might not perform as well as top level i7/i9 macs.

M1 has "only" 8 cores at moment. Is there another reason?

[audiothing]

I understand issues with moving to arp, but apple is breaking compatibility every release now. It's absolutely unreasonable.

Every release? Catalina sure, but for Big Sur, we don't really know yet how Rosetta 2 will perform. Again, nobody is forcing you to upgrade. Mojave (which I'm using on both my machines) can still run those precious 32bit plugins. The last update is from October, so it should be good enough for a while.

I understand that some may find this annoying, but as both a dev and a user, I'm quite happy about it.

YMMV and you can google even on this forum how man people are upset with it.

Well, people love to complain of course.
Even with Catalina, we still support 10.7, and I'm quite sure 10.6.8 might also work.
If the complaints are just for 32bit well...
We'll see with Big Sur, I have no idea yet how far we can go, probably 10.9?

This and top level arm macs might not perform as well as top level i7/i9 macs.

Let's hope you are wrong.

Now, if we really want to talk bad about apple: https://twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/stat ... 6412991489
That's kinda concerning.

[david.beholder]

This and top level arm macs might not perform as well as top level i7/i9 macs.

Let's hope you are wrong.

I actually don't care, I'm not a fanboy, I don't believe in buzz. Arm actually could be good for Mac Airs they were really underpowered anyway. But for High Performance I have really high doubts and that's probably why there are no real world comparisons yet.

Now, if we really want to talk bad about apple: https://twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/stat ... 6412991489
That's kinda concerning.

Yeah, I've read it in the morning and it's epic.
Pt2: Update: Apple says fixed, users still seeing errors

Btw can I use this thread as customer feedback platform?

[masterhiggins]

I understand issues with moving to arp, but apple is breaking compatibility every release now. It's absolutely unreasonable.

Every release? Catalina sure, but for Big Sur, we don't really know yet how Rosetta 2 will perform. Again, nobody is forcing you to upgrade. Mojave (which I'm using on both my machines) can still run those precious 32bit plugins. The last update is from October, so it should be good enough for a while.

I understand that some may find this annoying, but as both a dev and a user, I'm quite happy about it.

YMMV and you can google even on this forum how man people are upset with it.

Well, people love to complain of course.
Even with Catalina, we still support 10.7, and I'm quite sure 10.6.8 might also work.
If the complaints are just for 32bit well...
We'll see with Big Sur, I have no idea yet how far we can go, probably 10.9?

This and top level arm macs might not perform as well as top level i7/i9 macs.

Let's hope you are wrong.

Now, if we really want to talk bad about apple: https://twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/stat ... 6412991489
That's kinda concerning.

Thank you!!! I was wondering wtf was going on when I was launching apps.

[UltraJv]

I just came for a look to see what people were saying. I didn't expect users to be bullying devs into supporting ARM. Its Apples decision to move to ARM. The result will be that some plugs and apps never get ported. You should be aiming your anger at Apple rather than pretending the product will solve anything for you, it won't. In a few weeks, the honeymoon will be over and people will tell the truth about the kit and you wont be so keen. If something looks too good to be true, it usually is. In the mean time, you're killing devs. WTF?

[audiothing]

I actually don't care, I'm not a fanboy, I don't believe in buzz. Arm actually could be good for Mac Airs they were really underpowered anyway. But for High Performance I have really high doubts and that's probably why there are no real world comparisons yet.

Well, next week we'll have all the real-world comparisons we can get on the M1. For an M2 or M1X (whatever they decide to call the higher-end version) is gonna take a while.
The real concern for the higher-end will probably be the GPU though. Who knows.

Btw can I use this thread as customer feedback platform?

I guess here will be more appropriate

[david.beholder]

Well, next week we'll have all the real-world comparisons we can get on the M1. For an M2 or M1X (whatever they decide to call the higher-end version) is gonna take a while.
The real concern for the higher-end will probably be the GPU though. Who knows.

Question what core they've licensed to begin with. If it was AMD or NV then they could have decent GPU performance.

I guess here will be more appropriate

Check it out

[agharta]

A lot of people are of the opinion that ARM is somehow inferior to x86 and can’t scale to the high end.
I haven’t seen any evidence to back that up and if anything x86 seems to be less well regarded by those with more technical knowledge.
Keep in mind that Amazon use custom ARM chips of their own design in some of their cloud servers and others also make custom ARM chips for high end servers.
I am very interested to see what Apple use in the Mac Pro replacement.
The current one was outdated and very underpowered in some important ways on release, so the bar was set very low.
Apple could double the performance of that if they choose to.

[david.beholder]

ARM fanboys with no it hw degree is something new.

[Passing Bye]

Did Steve Jobs banged your wife or something

[revvy]

ARM fanboys with no it hw degree is something new.

To be fair, all the naysayers without the necessary qualifications are just as pathetic.

[Passing Bye]

I just came for a look to see what people were saying. I didn't expect users to be bullying devs into supporting ARM. Its Apples decision to move to ARM. The result will be that some plugs and apps never get ported. You should be aiming your anger at Apple rather than pretending the product will solve anything for you, it won't. In a few weeks, the honeymoon will be over and people will tell the truth about the kit and you wont be so keen. If something looks too good to be true, it usually is. In the mean time, you're killing devs. WTF?

Did you take wrong pills, because you are probably in the wrong thread, nobody is bullying anyone and almost nobody cares about some first world developers problems, developers are doing this for money, not world peace, if they don't want money from Apple users, they should not code for macOS, end of story, if they want, shut up and code.

Actually it would be cool if those that can't keep up just drop the macOS support and leave to the ones that actually care, instead of taking money from Apple customers and bitching and moaning in the same time, I have bad days on my day job too, but I don't advise people against my own interest, I would loose my job if there was less demand for the work I do, so don't shit where you eat.

[Sascha Franck]

but apple is breaking compatibility every release now. It's absolutely unreasonable.

Unfortunately, this is true. Since at least around 5 years, there's not a single of those yearly OS updates that isn't breaking something. Sometimes it's for good reasons, but very often it's just to enforce planned obsolescence. "No, you're not allowed to run this OS on your computer anymore, please buy a new one!"
Now, Apple being a hardware company, this is partially understandable. But in case of Apple, very often it's just displaying their shameless greed.
Anyhow, even worse, along with these OS updates rendering older computers sort of useless, they're almost *always* breaking certain things for certain 3rd party software, requiring companies to rewrite at least some portions of their code. And well, even if programmers might think about that as a trivial issue, for users it's not - simply because some companies may decide to not update their applications any longer. And that's where the s**t hits the fan.
Over the last 13-14 years (that's how long I'm more or less a fulltime Mac user, at least for music), I lost countless plugins, some of them which I'd really still like to use here and there. And apart from the 64bit move, IMO there's been no significant reasons for things to be like that.
That just plain sucks for end users.

[david.beholder]

To be fair, all the naysayers without the necessary qualifications are just as pathetic.

I agree here but I'm yet to see one in this thread unlike ARM fanboys.

[revvy]

I am aware that some people don't like what I write about Apple. But it's all facts. Sorry if i should have hurt your personal feelings

You wrote this directly under my post, not sure if you're referring to me. FTR, you couldn't hurt my feelings if you tried as I don't know you nor you me.

My point still stands, I personally won't whine if devs stop developing for Mac, far too many more important things in my life. I don't own any of your products, and if you stop supporting Mac OS I would respect your personal and professional decision.

Devs who continue to develop for Mac OS, however, while advising their customers to switch to Windows or writing shit about 'Apple users', not so deserving of respect, IMO.