Future of Logic Pro and Cubase on Mac

[jonljacobi]

It's going to be very interesting, but lots of music stuff has been running on the ARMs in the phones and tablets, so this isn't completely uncharted territory. The most interesting thing to me is what will be ported and when. There's no real rush for smaller developers for whom the M1 Macs will represent a very small percentage of sales.

I'm a bit bummed about Boot Camp, which I use extensively. Okay, I lie. I have no plans to upgrade anytime soon as what I have now is way more than sufficient, and I'm not addicted to upgrading.

[jancivil]

I bought an i9 MBP with 64GB RAM with some other top-end features in June, $5K basically, so the ARM thing is pretty moot for me, distant speculative future. I hope this thing outlasts me.

[pdxindy]

OK, let‘s come back to normal discussion

1. I am at the moment pretty skeptical, that the current M1 shall exceed the Intel platform in terms of speed and of course pretty curious what will be the outcome of practical tests and several benchmarks the next weeks. I wonder, that they still offer the Intel based Mac Pro 13“ as the higher priced variants. So when the M1 is so superior to the Intel i5-7, why they just equip the low-price-versions with it?

The M1 is just the start...

The M1 is not going to exceed the entire Intel platform. It is exceeding the lower power mobile intel chips for the newly replaced Apple laptop models. Affinity said they are seeing dramatic speed improvements in their just released Apple Silicon native versions of their apps (Photo, Designer, Publisher). Especially with graphics drawing, they said you can have many more live adjustment layers without a slowdown. They mentioned 3 times as fast though I'm not sure what that means.

The first Geekbench test I saw of the M1 shows a 50% CPU increase for a single core vs the high end Mac Mini. 30% for multi-core. That is a solid advance.

Apple is no doubt working on (or has ready to go) an M2 or M1X or whatever to put in the iMac and 16" MBP and so on. The entire lineup will be transitioned in max 2 years... that includes the Mac Pro which is a fast machine. Apple is obviously confident in their ability to upscale the new architecture.

[pdxindy]

[*] I feel pissed, that they cropped 2 Thunderbolt interfaces, so at the moment they have at maximum 2 together with M1. When they keep this practice to castrate even higher priced version (as they did with the iPhone to drop the charging adapter), then I need to think about going back to Windows (what I do anyway with each decision, what should be the next laptop, but the last years the Mac won always)

That was a good decision to drop the charger from the iPhone. I've got 3 chargers that can charge my phone as is, plus I can use the laptop. There are already too many chargers ending up in landfills and lots of people have them. Samsung is also looking at dropping the charger... it is sound resource and environmental policy to do so.

I would also prefer the 4 thunderbolt ports. We'll see when the 16" MBP comes out. I expect the 4 for that one.

[pdxindy]

[*] I can imagine, that in general it‘s bad for us music makers. Going to Intel in 2006 was pretty covenient for us, because it reduced the barrier for software makers, who developed mainly for Windows to also compile it for Mac then. This barrier now will get higher and I expect, the one or other small VST developer could drop now Mac support. Apple expects pretty much from SW-companies supporting MacOS. Last time big issues with Catalina, now switching to M1 and Big Sur, which also seems to run into trouble - Eventide already announced, that they are not yet Big Sur compatible. I would say, Apple is overexaggerating at the moment and I would not wonder, if this would lead to get less SW for Mac in the future...
[/list]

All the applications and plugins I use will be ported to native Apple Silicon.

The advantage for the developer to port is that it brings them closer to a massive iOS market. That may well offset the extra developer time to go Apple Silicon native.

From an enduser perspective, having an Apple Silicon Mac means I can use my iOS apps on it. So excellent apps like Drambo, Borderlands, etc. will now be available to Mac users. I'm pleased about that aspect.

[jonljacobi]

I don't even touch the capabilities of my 2015 iMac i7-6700. If I do anything, it will be a Ryzen with a 4K display. I have a 3700X here temporarily and it doesn't even break a sweat. It even hacks decently with Thunderbolt via a Titan Ridge card. I love Macs, but if they can't run Windows (I spend most of my time there for work) without a VM...

[Winstontaneous]

The advantage for the developer to port is that it brings them closer to a massive iOS market. That may well offset the extra developer time to go Apple Silicon native.

From an enduser perspective, having an Apple Silicon Mac means I can use my iOS apps on it. So excellent apps like Drambo, Borderlands, etc. will now be available to Mac users. I'm pleased about that aspect.

Hmm, if this happens I can see the bottom falling out of the AU plugin market because people won't want to pay more than $5 or $10 or the Euro equivalent for an iOS app...for instance ToneBoosters Reverb 4 VST/AU is about $40 but the app is $8.99...AudioDamage FilterStation 2: $49 plugin vs. $4.99 app. Same with Auria PSP/FabFilter iOS in-app purchases vs. those brands' much higher AU/VST plugin prices. And there are no demos, developers have very little pricing flexibility and hand over way more $$ to App Store. If lower prices bring more users that's a higher support burden too.

[Etienne1973]

Hmm, if this happens I can see the bottom falling out of the AU plugin market because people won't want to pay more than $5 or $10 or the Euro equivalent for an iOS app...for instance ToneBoosters Reverb 4 VST/AU is about $40 but the app is $8.99...AudioDamage FilterStation 2: $49 plugin vs. $4.99 app. Same with Auria PSP/FabFilter iOS in-app purchases vs. those brands' much higher AU/VST plugin prices. And there are no demos, developers have very little pricing flexibility and hand over way more $$ to App Store. If lower prices bring more users that's a higher support burden too.

+1

Top comment IMO.

[chk071]

Hmm, if this happens I can see the bottom falling out of the AU plugin market because people won't want to pay more than $5 or $10 or the Euro equivalent for an iOS app...

I don't. It's a completely different market. You can't sell iPad users apps for a couple of hundred € (which is more likely than the other way around, no pro audio software can live of iPad app prices). It's not a "pro" market, it's a handheld "sit on the coach and play" market. Serious work is done on the laptop or desktop.

It doesn't even matter if the apps are identical. Noone would buy a 150 € soft synth for the iPad, or a 600-700 € DAW. And, unless Hans Zimmer starts composing film scores on his iPad tomorrow (I doubt it), or mastering studios master on iPads, this is not likely to change.

[Etienne1973]

... no pro audio software can live of iPad app prices ...

Exactly.

[jonljacobi]

I think Apple is quite obviously headed where Microsoft ineptly tried to go--one unified operating platform across multiple form factors. However, I'd expect pricing to continue largely as it stands, with different program licenses for the different form factors. The ability for the casual user to play with something on the iPhone will be far cheaper than a license to run it on a Macbook or iMac or when the phones are powerful enough, on an external display.

I also assume that eventually it will be virtually impossible to install anything that doesn't come from the Apple store. This would make piracy far more difficult, if not impossible. How this closed system will work out for Apple is anyone's guess. It failed last time for the lack of apps, but with so many more people working off of online services, and so used to phone app stores, that is likely no longer the factor it once was. Maybe.

[tooneba]

You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise, end of. Nothing more to say, you're just dead wrong about this. I live on an arterial and I still can't stand the noise of the laptop here, the desktop never makes noise really.

I don't think so. In theory musician will care about environmental noise but considering the reality that people buy laptop rather than desktop, buy all-in-one computer rather than separated one, buy thinner laptop rather than thick one. This is the opposite move when you want to reduce the fan noise. But apple have been doing this move and musicians have been buying their products. So your argument is just based on your desk theory. Most musicians don't care fan noise when they choose their computer.

[machinesworking]

You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise, end of. Nothing more to say, you're just dead wrong about this. I live on an arterial and I still can't stand the noise of the laptop here, the desktop never makes noise really.

I don't think so. In theory musician will care about environmental noise but considering the reality that people buy laptop rather than desktop, buy all-in-one computer rather than separated one, buy thinner laptop rather than thick one. This is the opposite move when you want to reduce the fan noise. But apple have been doing this move and musicians have been buying their products. So your argument is just based on your desk theory. Most musicians don't care fan noise when they choose their computer.

Having owned at least five different Apple laptops, you're wrong. Only this last one fans up to annoying levels. You're not wrong that choices the industry led by Apple have made noise an issue. Not changing the case at all for about ten years with the resulting chips burning hotter and needing cooling etc. All real. The noise was never a problem before, but Intels lack of ability in getting to 4nm coupled with Apples obsession with thin has created this situation since 4+ cores have become standard.

So this move to 7nm chips and easily estimated lower fan noise is a good thing.

[tooneba]

You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise, end of. Nothing more to say, you're just dead wrong about this. I live on an arterial and I still can't stand the noise of the laptop here, the desktop never makes noise really.

I don't think so. In theory musician will care about environmental noise but considering the reality that people buy laptop rather than desktop, buy all-in-one computer rather than separated one, buy thinner laptop rather than thick one. This is the opposite move when you want to reduce the fan noise. But apple have been doing this move and musicians have been buying their products. So your argument is just based on your desk theory. Most musicians don't care fan noise when they choose their computer.

Having owned at least five different Apple laptops, you're wrong. Only this last one fans up to annoying levels. You're not wrong that choices the industry led by Apple have made noise an issue. Not changing the case at all for about ten years with the resulting chips burning hotter and needing cooling etc. All real. The noise was never a problem before, but Intels lack of ability in getting to 4nm coupled with Apples obsession with thin has created this situation since 4+ cores have become standard.

So this move to 7nm chips and easily estimated lower fan noise is a good thing.

It's not me telling the laptop is noisier than desktop, all-in-one is noisier than separate one or thinner laptop is noisier than thicker one. It's science. So you can't prove anything just by saying "You are wrong". And musicians have been buying apple products. And this is true. Apple's product line is following this opposite trend. It is also true. So your bold claim "You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise" is false. That is what I'm pointing.

[Tronam]

I also assume that eventually it will be virtually impossible to install anything that doesn't come from the Apple store. This would make piracy far more difficult, if not impossible.

They’ve been very clear about not restricting it in that way. The Mac is intentionally different from their other devices. Sure, some average consumers may use them like mouse driven iPads, but they’re also an open development platform intended to allow for tinkering, experimentation and making stuff. Coding and compiling, research, virtualization, multiple OS disk volumes, background tools, 2 steps away from root access in Unix command line, etc... Considering its small marketshare relative to iPhone/iPad, there’s no good reason for closing it off. This is why the Mac and iPad have been kept separate and will continue to be in the future.