Roli: Equator 2 is here !

[BONES]

Windows 10 only, but looks good otherwise...

I assume that's because it uses the newer Windows audio stuff they did for universal apps. It's great because it's is very low latency but doesn't hog your ASIO driver.

If anyone gets it, I’d love to know if it’s good for non MPE use?
It looks great and is really powerful on paper

The old one works fine with or without MPE so I imagine this one will, too. It's a very good instrument and this seems to take it to another level.

Feature wise close to Arturia Pigments? Which is 50% off at the moment.

50% is quite appropriate as Pigments, while similar in approach, only has about 50% of everything - oscillators, envelopes, LFO, effects, etc. - compared to Equator 2.

Same. Seaboard 49 here. I rarely use Equator just because I have so many other synths to choose from. So shelling out $100US for Equator2 ... it's just not compelling enough to me for that. Oh well...

Not compelling? Seriously? Have you seen what they've done with it? I can easily see the value in the upgrade. They have fixed a lot of things they didn't really get right in the original and then gone bananas adding extra stuff in. I saw the price and thought it was ridiculous, then I watched the overview video and was convinced it was definitely worth paying for.

Anyone feels it is worth it for $99?

Easily. The original is one of my faves and this is a massive upgrade. I'm not keen on the purple highlight colour but everything else looks like a huge step up from v1. Surely it has to be right up there now with the very best of the ubersynths?

i like equator (1) with all it's quircks, but i can get complex sounds out of it, i make presets from scratch, the visual feedback is great, for the curves, and yes! curves! pretty handy...

Me, too. It also has the benefit of sounding really, really good. I'd kind of forgotten about it a bit in recent times so this is just what I need to get back to it. I'll let you know how I think v2 compares in a day or so.

Much more powerful architecture, much nicer to use, much better preset collection.

Hardly. It looks like basically the same architecture to me, only with improved organisation and more of everything. Equator v1 already has more useful presets out of the box than any other synth I own, so if v2 is even better, I'll be a very happy camper.

I've been on a list to hear about ROLI having the smaller Seaboard for sale since June, nada/zip/bupkiss. I basically imagined ROLI going under soon. suppose not

Roli have been putting all their effort into Lumi, which will take them into the consumer space, where they could easily clean up. I think there is very little chance of them going under any time soon. I've been trying to buy a Lumi Keys at full price for months now with no success.

[plexuss]

[snip...]

Same. Seaboard 49 here. I rarely use Equator just because I have so many other synths to choose from. So shelling out $100US for Equator2 ... it's just not compelling enough to me for that. Oh well...

Not compelling? Seriously? Have you seen what they've done with it? I can easily see the value in the upgrade. They have fixed a lot of things they didn't really get right in the original and then gone bananas adding extra stuff in. I saw the price and thought it was ridiculous, then I watched the overview video and was convinced it was definitely worth paying for.

You didn't read my post. I said in order to use Eqator2 I'd need to spend $250 on a video card soI can update to 10.14 and then $100 for the update = $350. No. Not worth it by a long shot. Such as it goes with old computers... I'd pay the $100. Read my post. Don't qupte me with such an irrelevant reply.

[BONES]

Maybe you didn't read your own post. Fortunately I quoted it for you, in its entirety, so you can read what you actually said. That you subsequently bought it and ran into other issues doesn't negate what you said here. If using a Mac is more important than having access to the best software, then there is nothing I can do to help you on that front.

[LoveEnigma18]

Anyone feels it is worth it for $99?

Easily. The original is one of my faves and this is a massive upgrade. I'm not keen on the purple highlight colour but everything else looks like a huge step up from v1. Surely it has to be right up there now with the very best of the ubersynths?

Yeah, I couldn't resist and bought it yesterday. I have 30 days in case I need to revert it. I am not happy with the font size (font type is not great either) as well knob size. I am on a 2K display. When increasing the GUI size, the knobs don't scale proportionately and it becomes difficult to grab them. I am often grabbing the modulation rings when all I want to do is move the knob. Pigments is much better in this department. If you have bought Equator2, do you also feel so?

[Ploki]

I've been on a list to hear about ROLI having the smaller Seaboard for sale since June, nada/zip/bupkiss. I basically imagined ROLI going under soon. suppose not

they had a backlog for replacements, i waited for mine about 4 months.

[ThomasHelzle]

Just for the record: They promised to make their installers able to use custom paths for the plugins and library for Equator1 years ago and it never happened. That they release ANOTHER such stupid installer speaks about their competence loudly.
How they handled the sudden switch to Windows 10-only with the Control Center (that still isn't able to not offer me the update each time I open it that does not work on Windows 8.1) was beyond believe.

After reading more about Equator 2, I'm actually happy that I can't even use it.
Roli Connect is a pain in the behind, re-activating every 4 months is stupid (don't follow the bad example of VPS Avenger there), only targeting the latest version of Windows is lame and overall they seem to continue in a direction that isn't mine.
I hope we will see more (and better) MPE Hardware in the future from companies that aren't such blockheads.

As far as I'm concerned, Roli can get lost.

Cheers, over and out.

Tom

[BONES]

I've only be playing around with it for half-an-hour or so but that's been enough time to put it through its paces. CPU use is very similar to the original - about 1.5% playing a three note chord, using the same preset from each. v2 switches off the oscillators that are not in use. Which, of course, means that you can still use v1 after you've installed v2, which is only 80Mb or so of download, plus content, which you download separately via Roli Connect.

The new GUI is a welcome improvement, setting up envelopes and LFO is now much easier than it used to be. It has a few nice features, e.g. if you select one of the 6 oscillators, it pops up a panel with settings like FM and Ring Mod, as well as the per-oscillator filter someone else mentioned. The default size is the same height as v1 but v1 is a little wider. Both look great on my laptop, although I prefer the colour scheme of v1. Interestingly, v2 lacks the Rise controls for the sliders and X-Y pad.

The effects are a big step up, too. There are even a handful of presets of complex set-ups that are pretty handy. There are only a dozen but they show what's possible. There are 15 effects to choose from, including a grain delay. The Shimmer preset is really nice.

When you change from MPE to Standard MIDI, Strike changes to Velocity, you don't get separate parameters for each, which makes sense (but I was wondering).

Another pleasing change is that it is louder than v1. I often found v1 too quiet, even at maximum volume. Otherwise you get the same great sound quality and great range of timbres.

There are heaps more presets than you get in v1. You have to install a heap of soundpacks separately to get them all to work but that process is pretty quick and painless.

Another downside is that the browser doesn't go away when you double-click on a new preset like it used to. You have to manually close it when you're ready. Otherwise the browser is much as it was. It is also very annoying that you can only open the stand-alone application via Roli Connect.

Overall, it is a solid improvement on v1. Yes, the upgrade price is a bit steep but if you use it as much as I do, it's well worth the investment.

[LoveEnigma18]

It is also very annoying that you can only open the stand-alone application via Roli Connect.

If you are on Windows, the standalone version can be opened from here too C:\Program Files\ROLI\Equator2. Just create a shortcut on your desktop. No need to use Roli Connect.

Another downside is that the browser doesn't go away when you double-click on a new preset like it used to. You have to manually close it when you're ready.

I have reported some GUI improvements. Will add this as well once they reply. Indeed useful to have the option to close browser automatically after loading the preset. EDIT: Got their reply and asked them to add this request saying it is from a forum friend.

[WasteLand]

On the eye, Equator 2 and Pigments are very similar however if you look closer, they are rather different beasts and sound also differently. Anyway I also got the Equator upgrade because of its excellent MPE implementation and I used the previous version a lot with my Seaboard. This synth was made for MPE whereas Pigments 2 can do some MPE as an additional feature. For example, it is possible to setup an MPE modulation source for really most parameters in the synth including the effects. Per MPE modulation source (STRIKE, GLIDE, SLIDE PRESS, and LIFT) 4 different response curves are available. As far as I know, this is the only synth with such MPE luxury. Pigments uses only mod 1 connected to cc74 when in MPE mode.

Each synths have their own strong points with respect to sound design. Equator 2 has a somewhat deeper synth signal flow where FM and Ring modulation can be done with al 6 sound sources. The wavetable oscillators in Pigments have more options like wave folding , distortion and FM from an additional source within the oscillator but not between oscillators. I could go on with addressing the differences but in the end IMHO both synths are very nice but serve different purposes if one is into MPE sound design. Equator 2 feels way more organic than Pigments when using the Seaboard. Just to tease the doubters, sound designers include Electric Himalaya, Aiyn Zahev , Biomechanoid and Yuli Yolo. The latter ones did also some of the Plasmonic patches.

i shall read the whole thread, from the posts i didn't read. i did read some posts. equator2 seems like a great synth, i will postpone my purchase, planning reasons.. i am planning now...

but this i must reply to:

MPE

MPE is in a way nothing special, if you look at the specs, it are the controllers and the parameter control that it makes special, and i really am in to MPE.

but first:

velocity, is midi 1.x spec, note on + which note + value of how hard you hit that key/note. that is by definition polyphonic.

release velocity, quite unknown!, is also midi 1.x spec, note off + which note + value of how fast you release the key/note. also by definition polyphonic (as above, because when you hit a key, it is send to the receiving end... so more keys, all keystrikes (strikes!) are send, serial, yes, but fast enough, to feel like it is parallel).

release velocity is what roli calls lift, sensel morph also outputs release velocity (and linnstrument and i gues joué, and other controllers). my novation sl 49 mk ii also sends release velocity.

so the 5 dimensions of MPE, yes they work together, and you can map 4 of them, most of the times, depends on the (soft) synth to any destination, even 5, of course..

but MPE has 3 dimensions, the spec:

X pitchbend
Y slide
Z pressure

it works with 16 channels, 1 global, 15 for voice (of course voice is strange word, because you have unison, so, that is also called voices), so how do must call it? for 15 keys there sepeate values, that don't intefere with eachother.
a strange thing, that the global channel isn't used always, at the receiving end, as only a global channel. it differs from synth to synth. so you can have 16 keys.. or voices...

also strange:
midi 1.x spec

- aftertouch is the name in midi spec 1.x for Polyphonic Key Pressure
- Channel Pressure for global after-touch, yes confusing, so not polyphonic, the last key pressed determines the value, but all brands use the term aftertouch for this, which means, that the keyboard has a strip that reacts to all keys, so it can only put out one aftertouch value. for the whole keyrange.

but forget the last things. but it already means this: if you have a keyboard that has velocity, polyphonic aftertouch (which is term that is most used), release velocity. you already have 3 of the 5 dimensions (althoug again... MPE is 3).

now we come to pigments, it has velocity (1), it has poly-aftertouch (2), it has slide (3), and X (pitchbend per note) (4). perhaps it eludes me, but i never saw release velocity, in pigments 2.

to be clear. pigments is fully MPE capable, except release velocity. if you have bitwig studio; you can by proxy use it.

i googled for release velocity and pigments 2 and stumble on a post, here by @Bones, LIFT or release velocity, seems the least interesting. in my case, it is not the most interesting, but it adds a lot (like vast dynamics vaporizer2 also implemented LIFT, and you can crazy stuff with it, because the implementation is bit different, than other soft synths..). and @Bones already explained that MPE is only an extension, and in way not that spectacular, in midi specs, in practice: wow (owning by the way a roli seaboard block + 2 lightpad M blocks, which by the way, for example, is that the only example? in voltage modular i can use now 2 seperately as MPE in devices (because the lightpad M blocks are DNA'd... if i use a seperate cable, 3!)).

sorry about this post about MPE...

i see that i was quoted 2 times. i still like my equator (1). but i have my plans (cubase 11 (update), melda MCompleBundle (upgrade), Live 11 suite (upgrade)).

equator2 is a quite different beast, very tempting, i must admit.

my following post will be more on topic. and perhaps shorter....

TL;DR

i know, that's me. the problem also is: i have biotek2 (great granular oscillator, sampler, no wavetables), MSoundFactory, Pigments 2, equator (1), cypher 2, vast dynamics vaporizer2; they ain't equator2, it has it's special workflow and possibilities. but it makes it for me, less interesting to buy it, for now. i will buy equator2 eventually, i know it.
and i forget more MPE capable synths that i have, o yes LION!... voltage modular, softube modular, reaktor... so i am bit covered.... but still! still!

EDIT: As far as I know, this is the only synth with such MPE luxury.
LION has it, biotek2 has it, cypher 2 of course, vaporizer2, i think MSoundFactory also (LIFT), softube modular, so this luxury is more common. i can only comment on the synths i have..

EDIT 2: addendum to EDIT (1) of course it is luxury, with equator2, especially with the curves you can set. not all can do that. curves are important (and no jokes!!! now...)

[WasteLand]

I've only be playing around with it for half-an-hour or so but that's been enough time to put it

....

Overall, it is a solid improvement on v1. Yes, the upgrade price is a bit steep but if you use it as much as I do, it's well worth the investment.

great summary. thanks!

[aMUSEd]

Can anyone conform whether assigning a parameter that has modulation already to an external controller and then moving it with the controller breaks the previous modulation assignments? (as with the Cypher 2/Strobe 2 bug)

[Whywhy]

Can anyone conform whether assigning a parameter that has modulation already to an external controller and then moving it with the controller breaks the previous modulation assignments? (as with the Cypher 2/Strobe 2 bug)

I'm making a test, tell me if it's correct.
Osc level mod by lfo : 0 to max
Automation on lfo level. 0 to max to 0.
At the end of the automation, the lfo to level modulate at 0 to max.
Is it ok ?
If you need another test, I will be happy to do it.

[LoveEnigma18]

Can anyone conform whether assigning a parameter that has modulation already to an external controller and then moving it with the controller breaks the previous modulation assignments? (as with the Cypher 2/Strobe 2 bug)

Nope, it does not.

Correct me if I did anything wrong:

1. New patch.
2. Assign LFO1 to modulate OSC1 level.
3. Assign MOD WHEEL to OSC1 level.
4. Moved MOD WHEEL on my keyboard and modulation worked fine.
5. Right clicked on OSC1 level knob and saw both modulation (LFO1 and MOD WHEEL) still present.
6. Deleted MOD WHEEL automation and the LFO1 modulation was still there and worked fine.

[aMUSEd]

Can anyone conform whether assigning a parameter that has modulation already to an external controller and then moving it with the controller breaks the previous modulation assignments? (as with the Cypher 2/Strobe 2 bug)

Nope, it does not.

Correct me if I did anything wrong:

1. New patch.
2. Assign LFO1 to modulate OSC1 level.
3. Assign MOD WHEEL to OSC1 level.
4. Moved MOD WHEEL on my keyboard and modulation worked fine.
5. Right clicked on OSC1 level knob and saw both modulation (LFO1 and MOD WHEEL) still present.
6. Deleted MOD WHEEL automation and the LFO1 modulation was still there and worked fine.

Thanks that sounds promising - if they can fix it then that bodes well also for Cypher and Strobe 2

[Whywhy]

Amused, what version of Cypher2 do you use?
Version 2.4.10.3 don't have this problem...
(We should discuss this via PM)