All About MIDI Polyphonic Expression (MPE)

[WasteLand]

it seems that roger linns site, does more an active job to discover MPE synths

This is because people are helping him in this topic:
viewtopic.php?p=7915410#p7915410

ok! didn't know...

[Tj Shredder]

I could do with some more information on using third party MPE plugins in Logic - all I can find covers the built in instruments

Logic is one of the easiest. Just works, nothing to set (unless you have to set it within the synth, like you have to do as well with Logics native synths...)
Logic is coming from the world of Midi, it just records and passes all Midi as it is. That is all it needs...
Same for Mainstage btw...

[Richard67]

Hello guys,
I'm an old touring drummer who aspires to record projects in an extra room in his place. Got everything set up. Got ProFX USB mixer and decent lap top, some mics and my drums, a Telly, a keyboard etc. The ProFX came with Pro Tools First and Waveform OEM. I know I'm potentially opening a flood gate here considering where I am - lol - But I really need an honest opinion of which one of these platforms I should install and put my time into learning. I've heard Waveform is a lot easier to use and is a powerful platform in its on right so I'm leaning that direction. But I've also read that Pro Tools is the industry standard for Editing. I definitely want to be able to load my songs onto sites like Rhythm Nation etc to get them heard so that would be important. Please tell it like it is. Thanks.

[WasteLand]

Hello guys,
I'm an old touring drummer who aspires to record projects in an extra room in his place. Got everything set up. Got ProFX USB mixer and decent lap top, some mics and my drums, a Telly, a keyboard etc. The ProFX came with Pro Tools First and Waveform OEM. I know I'm potentially opening a flood gate here considering where I am - lol - But I really need an honest opinion of which one of these platforms I should install and put my time into learning. I've heard Waveform is a lot easier to use and is a powerful platform in its on right so I'm leaning that direction. But I've also read that Pro Tools is the industry standard for Editing. I definitely want to be able to load my songs onto sites like Rhythm Nation etc to get them heard so that would be important. Please tell it like it is. Thanks.

me thinks you are in the wrong thread. one small remark pro tools maybe the industry standard, like adobe.. it has nothing do how your songs will sound.. mixing (and all things related, effects, etc. etc.) all DAW's sound the same.. but this is the MPE thread, not the thread about which platform/DAW i must use, which you don't give you any answer, buy what you like, it seems that you want to record mainly audio, so i don't know waveform (have only some version of it that came with a MPE sea/keybo(a)rd), but you must look at linear DAW's like presonus (that is also protools, but studio one is also an option), cubase, waveform i guess, can't, or harrisson mixbus 6, $19.... now...
what ever you get you going.

simple: try before buy, trial versions. and look at what you need, and look in to the future, i can only speak for cubase, perhaps cubase artist (in a sale), is all you need, but perhaps it must cubase pro, or it must protools, the big, one. or studio one gives you all. or the free cakewalk DAW.
harrison mixbus is designed, also visually like a real console.

many things. i am replying!. i do not record drums, guitars, or bands. i do my own stuff. better ask in the thread "hosts...."...

[pdxindy]

agreed that it is off topic, however Bitwig does support unequal tunings, just not unequal tunings of more than 12 tones. MPE is on topic as it allows microtonality to be handled outside a vsti if it supports MPE.

Bitwig 3.3 now supports more than 12 tones. Haven't tried it in the beta.

[pdxindy]

So first things first: for creative MPE stuff I really need to recommend Bitwig, for a number of reasons. First is that the built in instruments and the modular Grid have really excellent MPE implementations. As in, really, really good. Second is that the Instrument Rack instrument hosting containers built into BW allow for some good midi round robining.... which means you can build the kind of Kontakt racks I demo in the video above in Bitwig very quickly and easily (for instruments, like Kontakt, that don't support MPE natively.) The idea being that you have several identical (or not) instances of Kontakt configured to be mono and to respond to the MPE modulators (pressure, cc74, etc.) and Bitwig will round robin which notes go to which instance. Works great, all built in.

If you are using the Bitwig Instrument Selector device to round robin multiple instances of a non-MPE synth to make it MPE, if you start with 1 instance, then make a preset page(s) and map the controls to some common synth parameters, then duplicate the instance as needed, those macro controls will adjust all layers at once.

It is a good way to be able to make some common edits to all instances at same time (filter cutoff, amp env, etc).

[pdxindy]

Another useful Bitwig MPE option is with the Arpeggiator. Using an MPE controller like the Linnstrument, the Bitwig Arp converts poly pressure to note velocity (option in inspector). For example, use velocity to increase amp envelope release. Then if you play and hold say a C chord and put pressure on just the C note, then all the C notes will have a longer release. Then lighten the pressure on the C note and press more on the G and all the G notes have a longer release. You can do these things in realtime and change the groove and feel of the arp pattern. Very spontaneous and musical as well as flexible as one can use Velocity to control any parameter(s). This makes the Bitwig Arp the most realtime expressive Arp I have used.

[pnyboer]

One more video - working with Quanta. I hope people find these useful! I'll check out the deal with Logic and Plugins, though I think it's pretty simple.

[WasteLand]

Another useful Bitwig MPE option is with the Arpeggiator. Using an MPE controller like the Linnstrument, the Bitwig Arp converts poly pressure to note velocity (option in inspector). For example, use velocity to increase amp envelope release. Then if you play and hold say a C chord and put pressure on just the C note, then all the C notes will have a longer release. Then lighten the pressure on the C note and press more on the G and all the G notes have a longer release. You can do these things in realtime and change the groove and feel of the arp pattern. Very spontaneous and musical as well as flexible as one can use Velocity to control any parameter(s). This makes the Bitwig Arp the most realtime expressive Arp I have used.

nice, still learning bitwig.. the possibilities.

[WasteLand]

not news anymore, but there is new or new.... MPE capable DAW, live 11. coming soon.

[pnyboer]

Yes, Live 11 beta is out and about. I've been using it for a bit, and did a comprehensive write up of how to use MPE in Live 11. You can check that out at https://mpe.design
There are a bunch of example videos, and I go over how to use it in expected and perhaps unexpected ways.

[WasteLand]

Yes, Live 11 beta is out and about. I've been using it for a bit, and did a comprehensive write up of how to use MPE in Live 11. You can check that out at https://mpe.design
There are a bunch of example videos, and I go over how to use it in expected and perhaps unexpected ways.

i pre-ordered it, and applied for beta, but i think i will wait, enought to do...

it is a pity that simpler hasn't yet more MPE capabilities. if i read your page right, thanks for it by the way!

[pdxindy]

Yes, Live 11 beta is out and about. I've been using it for a bit, and did a comprehensive write up of how to use MPE in Live 11. You can check that out at https://mpe.design
There are a bunch of example videos, and I go over how to use it in expected and perhaps unexpected ways.

i pre-ordered it, and applied for beta, but i think i will wait, enought to do...

it is a pity that simpler hasn't yet more MPE capabilities. if i read your page right, thanks for it by the way!

This is the beauty of the integrated modulation system in Bitwig. Abletons instruments are all still individual instruments and modulation is limited to what is included with them (in the per voice sense). Every Bitwig instrument uses the same framework so even something like the simple Organ instrument can have complex MPE modulation. For example the individual sine partials of the Organ are modulatable and can be controlled by MPE and have unlimited per voice modulation.

I haven't been using Live for a few years. Back when I did, I didn't use the included Live instruments very much. I gravitated towards VST's with enough modulation to satisfy my expressive interests. I use the included Bitwig instruments much more these days than I ever did the included Live instruments. And of course every Bitwig instrument is automatically MPE capable.

I'm glad Ableton has added MPE to Live with v11. That was the single feature that caused me to leave Live. Good news for Live users who want MPE. I doubt I would be enticed to start using Live again, but I may upgrade to 11 anyway just to check out the MPE implementation. Note editing seems capable enough, though a bit slicker in Bitwig. The upgrade cost isn't that much at the moment and I could recoup much of it if I decide to sell.

MPE is central to my music making these days. I love the expressiveness of my Linnstrument so much I wouldn't want to be without it. I also have a Continuum and an Osmose on Pre-order.

[WasteLand]

Yes, Live 11 beta is out and about. I've been using it for a bit, and did a comprehensive write up of how to use MPE in Live 11. You can check that out at https://mpe.design
There are a bunch of example videos, and I go over how to use it in expected and perhaps unexpected ways.

i pre-ordered it, and applied for beta, but i think i will wait, enought to do...

it is a pity that simpler hasn't yet more MPE capabilities. if i read your page right, thanks for it by the way!

This is the beauty of the integrated modulation system in Bitwig. Abletons instruments are all still individual instruments and modulation is limited to what is included with them (in the per voice sense). Every Bitwig instrument uses the same framework so even something like the simple Organ instrument can have complex MPE modulation. For example the individual sine partials of the Organ are modulatable and can be controlled by MPE and have unlimited per voice modulation.

I haven't been using Live for a few years. Back when I did, I didn't use the included Live instruments very much. I gravitated towards VST's with enough modulation to satisfy my expressive interests. I use the included Bitwig instruments much more these days than I ever did the included Live instruments. And of course every Bitwig instrument is automatically MPE capable.

I'm glad Ableton has added MPE to Live with v11. That was the single feature that caused me to leave Live. Good news for Live users who want MPE. I doubt I would be enticed to start using Live again, but I may upgrade to 11 anyway just to check out the MPE implementation. Note editing seems capable enough, though a bit slicker in Bitwig. The upgrade cost isn't that much at the moment and I could recoup much of it if I decide to sell.

MPE is central to my music making these days. I love the expressiveness of my Linnstrument so much I wouldn't want to be without it. I also have a Continuum and an Osmose on Pre-order.

i also have bitwig studio 3.3(beta), and next year, live 11 suite. i don't compare them, and i think simpler will get a modulation matrix, and ableton has M4L (max is mpe capable).
so both are in their own way very capable DAW's, i have them for different purposes, next to other (some also MPE capable) DAW's.

[pdxindy]

Yes, Live 11 beta is out and about. I've been using it for a bit, and did a comprehensive write up of how to use MPE in Live 11. You can check that out at https://mpe.design
There are a bunch of example videos, and I go over how to use it in expected and perhaps unexpected ways.

i pre-ordered it, and applied for beta, but i think i will wait, enought to do...

it is a pity that simpler hasn't yet more MPE capabilities. if i read your page right, thanks for it by the way!

This is the beauty of the integrated modulation system in Bitwig. Abletons instruments are all still individual instruments and modulation is limited to what is included with them (in the per voice sense). Every Bitwig instrument uses the same framework so even something like the simple Organ instrument can have complex MPE modulation. For example the individual sine partials of the Organ are modulatable and can be controlled by MPE and have unlimited per voice modulation.

I haven't been using Live for a few years. Back when I did, I didn't use the included Live instruments very much. I gravitated towards VST's with enough modulation to satisfy my expressive interests. I use the included Bitwig instruments much more these days than I ever did the included Live instruments. And of course every Bitwig instrument is automatically MPE capable.

I'm glad Ableton has added MPE to Live with v11. That was the single feature that caused me to leave Live. Good news for Live users who want MPE. I doubt I would be enticed to start using Live again, but I may upgrade to 11 anyway just to check out the MPE implementation. Note editing seems capable enough, though a bit slicker in Bitwig. The upgrade cost isn't that much at the moment and I could recoup much of it if I decide to sell.

MPE is central to my music making these days. I love the expressiveness of my Linnstrument so much I wouldn't want to be without it. I also have a Continuum and an Osmose on Pre-order.

i also have bitwig studio 3.3(beta), and next year, live 11. i can't compare them, and i think simpler will get a modulation matrix, and ableton has M4L (max is mpe capable).
so both are in their own way capable DAW's, i have them for different purposes, next to other (some also MPE capable) DAW's.

M4L modulators don't do per voice modulation in Live.