Should I get FL Studio All Plugins Edition?

[Kongru]

Just be aware that if you buy FL Studio you’re stuck with it for life, no reselling.

I'm quite sure that's illegal in Europe.

Well that’s their policy and they enforce it.

It's not a matter of enforcing it. By buying it you agree to the T&C and 2-party agreement entered by both parties into in good faith and full transparency supersedes law.

No, that doesn't work that way in the EU. A software vendor has to let people resell their license.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the
use of his programs downloaded from the internet
The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is
exhausted on its first sale

Press release:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/doc ... 0094en.pdf

Actual judgement in all languages of the EU:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf? ... anguage=en

Unfortunately Image Line don’t believe their software is covered by that ruling: https://support.image-line.com/action/k ... se?ans=105

NOTE: Apple, Google and Microsoft do not allow the transfer of App purchases between customer accounts in the EU, or anywhere world-wide. We believe the situation is similar to our case as Apps are sold with Lifetime Free Updates. The sale of a lifetime updated app directly impacts on the developers ability to maintain their income, since there is no chance of upgrade purchases.

[AcrossTheSky]

Was asking the same thing for myself. For the all plugins FL addition my upgrade is $110. Then I see Soundtoys is $200 (don't know much about them). Then the Arturia Effx collection is on sale.

Yes, this year's November is crazy: new Macs, new Ableton, new Cubase, new Roli Equator, Vital and in between all these crazy BF offers. Arturia Fx is also under my observation

May I ask, from where you could upgrade for $110? Might be an option to buy Signature Edition at audiodeluxe.com and then upgrade to All Plugins Bundle.

in Uk mine was 85£+tax=102..
I had Signature version + separately purchased Vst - Harmor, Gross Beat,Toxic Biohazard.
so maybe the more you have the better the deal..surely Harmor boosts the reduction as well as Morphine if someone has it...

[antic604]

No, that doesn't work that way in the EU. A software vendor has to let people resell their license.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the
use of his programs downloaded from the internet
The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is
exhausted on its first sale

Press release:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/doc ... 0094en.pdf

Actual judgement in all languages of the EU:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf? ... anguage=en

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

If that ruling does apply, why can't I re-sell my Rack Extensions?

[Reefius]

They know that nobody will hire a lawyer for a €200 piece of software.

[AcrossTheSky]

No, that doesn't work that way in the EU. A software vendor has to let people resell their license.

An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the
use of his programs downloaded from the internet
The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is
exhausted on its first sale

Press release:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/doc ... 0094en.pdf

Actual judgement in all languages of the EU:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf? ... anguage=en

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

If that ruling does apply, why can't I re-sell my Rack Extensions?

Reason guys are so clever to come up with the model of implemented system of Rack Extensions that cannot be transferred - maybe the Vital VST plugins in subscription model will have similar approach and will only work with Vital...clever ??
but you can create Halion instruments and resell them - thats cool...
Rack Extensions are creations done by other parties ..I guess other rules apply - I dono...
too much writing for me now...bye ..

[SamDi]

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

Don't know, where you come from, but it's not so easy:

Since big enterprises & companies are by default much stronger in terms of finance and structure, than end-consumers, they are protected by many laws in Europe. Normally it's not the case, that both parties agree on such things like NFR by choice. Rather the consumers get foisted these terms in the terms and conditions. Terms and conditions are not explicitly contracted by both parties, so there are relatively strong rules, what is allowed and what not. Also every clause, which may lead to a strong unbalance and giving the company one-sided advantages over the consumer, can be skipped afterwards at court.

Furthermore, there are things, which can even not explicitly contracted in B2C relationsships, e.g. dropping the warranty rights. There is no way for a company to exclude this rights by contract.

It gets interesting, when a company is located outside of Europe and cannot be accessed by local law. In a first step as consumer you get the short end of a stick then. But if the number of incidents increases and it gets "political", then of course it gets uncomfortable for this company, too.

[antic604]

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

Don't know, where you come from, but it's not so easy:

Since big enterprises & companies are by default much stronger in terms of finance and structure, than end-consumers, they are protected by many laws in Europe. Normally it's not the case, that both parties agree on such things like NFR by choice. Rather the consumers get foisted these terms in the terms and conditions. Terms and conditions are not explicitly contracted by both parties, so there are relatively strong rules, what is allowed and what not. Also every clause, which may lead to a strong unbalance and giving the company one-sided advantages over the consumer, can be skipped afterwards at court.

Furthermore, there are things, which can even not explicitly contracted in B2C relationsships, e.g. dropping the warranty rights. There is no way for a company to exclude this rights by contract.

It gets interesting, when a company is located outside of Europe and cannot be accessed by local law. In a first step as consumer you get the short end of a stick then. But if the number of incidents increases and it gets "political", then of course it gets uncomfortable for this company, too.

...and you're still considering FL Studio?

[SamDi]

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

Don't know, where you come from, but it's not so easy:

Since big enterprises & companies are by default much stronger in terms of finance and structure, than end-consumers, they are protected by many laws in Europe. Normally it's not the case, that both parties agree on such things like NFR by choice. Rather the consumers get foisted these terms in the terms and conditions. Terms and conditions are not explicitly contracted by both parties, so there are relatively strong rules, what is allowed and what not. Also every clause, which may lead to a strong unbalance and giving the company one-sided advantages over the consumer, can be skipped afterwards at court.

Furthermore, there are things, which can even not explicitly contracted in B2C relationsships, e.g. dropping the warranty rights. There is no way for a company to exclude this rights by contract.

It gets interesting, when a company is located outside of Europe and cannot be accessed by local law. In a first step as consumer you get the short end of a stick then. But if the number of incidents increases and it gets "political", then of course it gets uncomfortable for this company, too.

...and you're still considering FL Studio?

Just bought the Signature Edition 20 minutes ago

[antic604]

Just bought the Signature Edition 20 minutes ago

Nice! Which other DAWs you have? Have you worked in FL at all?

[SamDi]

I don't think if two parties agree willingly to a deal, when one side resigns from their right to re-sell in exchange for lifetime free support; is illegal. It would be an infringement on right to enter a transactions that both parties agree to.

Don't know, where you come from, but it's not so easy:

I am an idiot - you explicitly wrote that you are located in Europe... sorry for my weirdness...

[chk071]

Since big enterprises & companies are by default much stronger in terms of finance and structure, than end-consumers, they are protected by many laws in Europe.

Just to put things a bit into perspective: https://www.owler.com/company/image-line

Employees: 35. Estimated annual revenue: $20.9 millions.

Image-Line, just like most of the other audio software companies is a (very) low tier company, not a big "enterprise". And even if they were bigger, I couldn't really comprehend why it has to be brought up so many times that they should be sued or whatever. If you really feel like they break laws, and you're so hurt and harmed by that, then I would just sue them, rather than talk about it the whole time. Or you just accept that about every company in this business is a small business, consist of musicians in many cases, and, especially, of people who need to bring food on the table.

[SamDi]

Just bought the Signature Edition 20 minutes ago

Nice! Which other DAWs you have? Have you worked in FL at all?

Hm, let me think:
I use Ableton for 90% and sometimes I use Logic or Reaper. Not in use, I have an old Mixbus version and an MPC Studio 1.xx, which was never worth for me to upgrade it. (Should I mention Cakewalk, which I have installed but really never use?) It's obvious that I was reeeeaaally underequipped...

No, I demoed FL just for two days. Liked it somehow. And I like this Elektrohouse/Complextro stuff, where the majority of the scene uses FL Studio there, so it seems to have it's advantages. If it really should be shitty, because it's too "childish", well - I am looking also for a fun-DAW for my 9-year-old daughter

[antic604]

Just bought the Signature Edition 20 minutes ago

Nice! Which other DAWs you have? Have you worked in FL at all?

Hm, let me think:
I use Ableton for 90% and sometimes I use Logic or Reaper. Not in use, I have an old Mixbus version and an MPC Studio 1.xx, which was never worth for me to upgrade it. (Should I mention Cakewalk, which I have installed but really never use?) It's obvious that I was reeeeaaally underequipped...

No, I demoed FL just for two days. Liked it somehow. And I like this Elektrohouse/Complextro stuff, where the majority of the scene uses FL Studio there, so it seems to have it's advantages. If it really should be shitty, because it's too "childish", well - I am looking also for a fun-DAW for my 9-year-old daughter

Well, good luck then! As I said I gave it a chance few times - by now 5 or 6 at least - and I just can't use it. It's to different & weird, but perhaps v21 changes that

[SamDi]

Since big enterprises & companies are by default much stronger in terms of finance and structure, than end-consumers, they are protected by many laws in Europe.

Just to put things a bit into perspective: https://www.owler.com/company/image-line

Employees: 35. Estimated annual revenue: $20.9 millions.

Image-Line, just like most of the other audio software companies is a (very) low tier company, not a big "enterprise". And even if they were bigger, I couldn't really comprehend why it has to be brought up so many times that they should be sued or whatever. If you really feel like they break laws, and you're so hurt and harmed by that, then I would just sue them, rather than talk about it the whole time. Or you just accept that about every company in this business is a small business, consist of musicians in many cases, and, especially, of people who need to bring food on the table.

Yeah of course. It's no NASDAQ-100 company. I just tried to explain, what is the intention of the laws, which regulate B2C relationships and contracting.

I have the impression, you mix-up things. I didn't complain about anything. I just bought FL studio 30 minutes ago, so why should I accuse them? I don't care for NFR, because I do not sell SW, at least up until now. I just answered to antic604's post. Maybe you should re-read his post and my answer and calm down..

[SamDi]

Well, good luck then! As I said I gave it a chance few times - by now 5 or 6 at least - and I just can't use it. It's to different & weird, but perhaps v21 changes that

Do you have 2-3 examples, what you found weird? My impression was: not as streamlined as Ableton, but nevertheless quite useful. I do not intend to use it as a full-stack-DAW. Intention is to build some bass, beat, texture skelettons via patterns and then export it to another DAW . I am lacking of motivation to vary bass and beat in linear DAW measures. So maybe this step-sequencer/pattern approach is giving me some gain to handle it