Roli: Equator 2 is here !

[himalaya]

They took everything I loved about the first one and added a bunch of stuff that really puts it over the top for MPE imho.

yeah, just imagine, on SLIDE you could be pushing forward a complex granular layer. On PRESS you could be sweeping through a deep wavetable pad. On LIFT you could be triggering another granular layer or maybe an FM sound, while the main body of sound, what you sustain could be playing a lush analogue layer. Throw in a few effects to glue it all together (maybe the new granular delay with the new and lush sounding reverb...) This is all achieved with such ease...

[MADMANJ]

There’s a guy on YouTube who does sound design, video below of him playing around with it.

That is a good video, too bad there is nothing to adjust on the sample itself, like granular, in that way it looks to me Pigments 2 would be a better choice for sound designing. Also one thing about the presets. the blue are set for mpe, the orange are non-mpe, and i see just like in version 1 that all the blue also have an orange version, so if this synth has 1300 presets, from which 500 are mpe and 800 are non mpe, it could mean 500 are the same sounds. did someone count them already? I also do not understand the benefit of making MPE and non-MPE presets. Just make them all MPE, then you can still play them on a normal midi controller. I hope i am not correct but if it's true what i think that 800 presets are actually unique to me it's a misleading selling point.

[zvenx]

Hi, any idea if there will ever be a demo?
thanks
rsp

Per the Equator 2 FAQ, there is no demo available now. Roli plans to introduce one, but they do not have a date for release. Not sure it will be available before the discount expires, so agree with the suggestion to try the 30-day trial if your resources permit.

Indeed.
https://support.roli.com/support/soluti ... 6000255935

Thanks
rsp

[dunohearno]

There’s a guy on YouTube who does sound design, video below of him playing around with it.

That is a good video, too bad there is nothing to adjust on the sample itself, like granular, in that way it looks to me Pigments 2 would be a better choice for sound designing. Also one thing about the presets. the blue are set for mpe, the orange are non-mpe, and i see just like in version 1 that all the blue also have an orange version, so if this synth has 1300 presets, from which 500 are mpe and 800 are non mpe, it could mean 500 are the same sounds. did someone count them already? I also do not understand the benefit of making MPE and non-MPE presets. Just make them all MPE, then you can still play them on a normal midi controller. I hope i am not correct but if it's true what i think that 800 presets are actually unique to me it's a misleading selling point.

Yeah, hopefully the sampler oscillator will improve. In comparison to Pigments though, the flexibility of the routing on Equator and the general workflow is way better. Also sounds better. As good a synth as it is, the granular engine in Pigments is not the best. At the moment though, I’d agree in it’s a more complete synth. Hopefully Roli sort the few problems with Equator soon, because it has the potential to be killer.

[himalaya]

That is a good video, too bad there is nothing to adjust on the sample itself, like granular,

Not sure what you mean, Equator2 has a very deep granular engine. You can select any sample in the granular engine. The multi-samples or the specific Granular samples.

I also do not understand the benefit of making MPE and non-MPE presets. Just make them all MPE, then you can still play them on a normal midi controller. I hope i am not correct but if it's true what i think that 800 presets are actually unique to me it's a misleading selling point.

MPE presets are NOT compatible with a normal midi keyboard. That is why there are two kinds, the MPE (blue icon) type and Standard (orange icon) type. Why are MPE presets not compatible with a normal midi keyboard? For several reasons:

1. MPE presets are designed to make use of 'continuous-pressure' of the Seaboard RISE. There are presets which rely on this completely. Sounds like reeds, acoustic brass, woodwinds, or any thing that relies on pressure. If you were to select a preset like this and play it on a normal midi keyboard the preset will not play properly. In the worst case scenario you will get silence. Why? because a normal midi keyboard does not use this 'continuoius-pressure' design, but instead it uses 'aftertouch'. I used to demonstrate it with my Mellow Duduk preset from Equator 1. It just does not work on a normal midi keyboard, since the whole timbre is triggered by continuous-pressure. What you get on a normal midi keyboard is a tiny attack (what is assigned to velocity) and nothing besides. No sustain, no sound.

2. The issue with LIFT. Most MPE presets have the LIFT dimension. In order to make it work on the Seaboard RISE or BLOCK, we need to perform a quick 'press & release' gesture in order to trigger this LIFT dimension (velocity note-off). It works well if we have the skill to trigger it. But what happens on a normal midi keyboard, at least it happens on my master Roland XP-80 keyboard, is that with each note-off the LIFT dimension fires off and gets in the way. So, if there is an octave-switch assigned to LIFT, on a normal keyboard it will fire off each time you lift your finders off the keyboard, becoming very distracting. Why distracting? Because you do not have any control whether to trigger it or not. It just fires off all the time.

3. Now, lets talk about Absolute mode MPE presets. If you play such a preset on a traditional midi controller, you will not hear what the preset is about. Simply because everything that the preset is about is assigned to the ABSOLUTE mode where everything is triggered on the SLIDE dimension (CC74). So, if we offer you a bunch of such presets and you will play them on a traditional midi keyboard, you will never hear the actual timbre of the preset.


and so on. That's why there are two types of preset, MPE and Standard. Now, if you realise that the MPE presets are tuned to the Seaboard RISE, and will not be tuned to other MPE controllers from the outset, then you will realise how complex this MPE-sound design is. In fact, I had to tune presets to the Seaboard GRAND and to the Seaboard RISE differently. The same family of instruments that needed different 'response tuning'. Linnstrumnet users may need to tweak the MPE presets to better suit the playing surface of the Linnstrumnet.

So, if we want to have well balanced presets, presets that make sense on your midi controller of choice, there needs to be this specific approach; MPE vs Standard presets.

Of course, you may be lucky and select an MPE preset and play it on a normal midi keyboard and be none the wiser, it may sound good to you. Maybe the presets indeed sounds good as it is, but as professional sound designers, we can not leave it to chance, hoping that an MPE preset will translate to all midi controllers, all flavours of MPE controller design...

My personal aim will be to tune some MPE presets to the Linstrumnet too and maybe other MPE controllers. But hopefully it illustrates the intricacies of preset design for MPE and Standard midi controllers.

[Friendly Noise]

[/quote]
2. The issue with LIFT. Most MPE presets have the LIFT dimension. In order to make it work on the Seaboard RISE or BLOCK, we need to perform a quick 'press & release' gesture in order to trigger this LIFT dimension (velocity note-off). It works well if we have the skill to trigger it. But what happens on a normal midi keyboard, at least it happens on my master Roland XP-80 keyboard, is that with each note-off the LIFT dimension fires off and gets in the way. So, if there is an octave-switch assigned to LIFT, on a normal keyboard it will fire off each time you lift your finders off the keyboard, becoming very distracting. Why distracting? Because you do not have any control whether to trigger it or not. It just fires off all the time.
[/quote]

That’s why I prefer to say “negative pressure” instead of release velocity or lift. You can get only the same amount of lift as the amount of pressure you applied to the keys before.

[aMUSEd]

How long is the 'reduced' intro price running?

[himalaya]

That’s why I prefer to say “negative pressure” instead of release velocity or lift. You can get only the same amount of lit as the amount of pressure you applied to the keys before.

Not necessarily. The way LIFT behaves depends on the expression curve. It can be set so that you can trigger LIFT without any pressure. My personal preference is to set LIFT in such a way that it is not triggered too easily, which means that this 'press & release' gesture has to be performed. To achieve this, my presets have a deep exponential curve, often with a specific reverse-Z shape (this is mostly when I trigger octaves via LIFT). But, it all depends on how you set up that expression curve. That's why they are so essential to have in MPE synths.

[MADMANJ]

MPE presets are NOT compatible with a normal midi keyboard. That is why there are two kinds, the MPE (blue icon) type and Standard (orange icon) type. Why are MPE presets not compatible with a normal midi keyboard? For several reasons:

you are right, i just tried the mellow duduk preset both orange and blue on my nektar panorama and roli seaboard and there is indeed a difference between those two. I always thought that the sound would be the same only the 5d benefits would be gone, and pressure would be replaced by aftertouch. Thanks for the explanation.

[BONES]

Does not take much time to evaluate an obvious issue with the GUI, especially when you have tons of other plugins with scalable GUI for side by side comparison. How hard is it to spot that the Equator2 font text and knob sizes are on the smaller side?

It would be easy if it were the case but they aren't at all. The text is about the same size as the text I am typing now, maybe just a point size smaller. Eminently readable, though, so not an issue at all.

[simmo75]

That is a good video, too bad there is nothing to adjust on the sample itself, like granular,

Not sure what you mean, Equator2 has a very deep granular engine. You can select any sample in the granular engine. The multi-samples or the specific Granular samples.

I also do not understand the benefit of making MPE and non-MPE presets. Just make them all MPE, then you can still play them on a normal midi controller. I hope i am not correct but if it's true what i think that 800 presets are actually unique to me it's a misleading selling point.

MPE presets are NOT compatible with a normal midi keyboard. That is why there are two kinds, the MPE (blue icon) type and Standard (orange icon) type. Why are MPE presets not compatible with a normal midi keyboard? For several reasons:

1. MPE presets are designed to make use of 'continuous-pressure' of the Seaboard RISE. There are presets which rely on this completely. Sounds like reeds, acoustic brass, woodwinds, or any thing that relies on pressure. If you were to select a preset like this and play it on a normal midi keyboard the preset will not play properly. In the worst case scenario you will get silence. Why? because a normal midi keyboard does not use this 'continuoius-pressure' design, but instead it uses 'aftertouch'. I used to demonstrate it with my Mellow Duduk preset from Equator 1. It just does not work on a normal midi keyboard, since the whole timbre is triggered by continuous-pressure. What you get on a normal midi keyboard is a tiny attack (what is assigned to velocity) and nothing besides. No sustain, no sound.

2. The issue with LIFT. Most MPE presets have the LIFT dimension. In order to make it work on the Seaboard RISE or BLOCK, we need to perform a quick 'press & release' gesture in order to trigger this LIFT dimension (velocity note-off). It works well if we have the skill to trigger it. But what happens on a normal midi keyboard, at least it happens on my master Roland XP-80 keyboard, is that with each note-off the LIFT dimension fires off and gets in the way. So, if there is an octave-switch assigned to LIFT, on a normal keyboard it will fire off each time you lift your finders off the keyboard, becoming very distracting. Why distracting? Because you do not have any control whether to trigger it or not. It just fires off all the time.

3. Now, lets talk about Absolute mode MPE presets. If you play such a preset on a traditional midi controller, you will not hear what the preset is about. Simply because everything that the preset is about is assigned to the ABSOLUTE mode where everything is triggered on the SLIDE dimension (CC74). So, if we offer you a bunch of such presets and you will play them on a traditional midi keyboard, you will never hear the actual timbre of the preset.


and so on. That's why there are two types of preset, MPE and Standard. Now, if you realise that the MPE presets are tuned to the Seaboard RISE, and will not be tuned to other MPE controllers from the outset, then you will realise how complex this MPE-sound design is. In fact, I had to tune presets to the Seaboard GRAND and to the Seaboard RISE differently. The same family of instruments that needed different 'response tuning'. Linnstrumnet users may need to tweak the MPE presets to better suit the playing surface of the Linnstrumnet.

So, if we want to have well balanced presets, presets that make sense on your midi controller of choice, there needs to be this specific approach; MPE vs Standard presets.

Of course, you may be lucky and select an MPE preset and play it on a normal midi keyboard and be none the wiser, it may sound good to you. Maybe the presets indeed sounds good as it is, but as professional sound designers, we can not leave it to chance, hoping that an MPE preset will translate to all midi controllers, all flavours of MPE controller design...

My personal aim will be to tune some MPE presets to the Linstrumnet too and maybe other MPE controllers. But hopefully it illustrates the intricacies of preset design for MPE and Standard midi controllers.

Is there a way you can set which type of keyboard you want it to open with as a default?
I'm flicking through the manual but not seeing it.

[Echoes in the Attic]

i like equator (1) with all it's quircks, but i can get complex sounds out of it, i make presets from scratch, the visual feedback is great, for the curves, and yes! curves! pretty handy...

Me, too. It also has the benefit of sounding really, really good. I'd kind of forgotten about it a bit in recent times so this is just what I need to get back to it. I'll let you know how I think v2 compares in a day or so.

Being the filter critic that you are, I'm surprised you're ok with the equator filters. Up towards max resonance they turn into hot digital garbage. But hey at least they don't loose volume with resonance.

Note: This is in reference to V1, but I was told they didn't change the filters in V2. Surprising given the ground up re-write that they kept all the same filter models?

[BONES]

I notice in the browser that you can choose between "Equator Engine" and "Equator 2 Engine", so I assume it has two completely different synth engines in there. So yeah, it seems a bit weird that they didn't do anything with the filters. I don't do much high resonance stuff so I've never really noticed. They aren't terribly characterful but they get the job done.

Is there a way you can set which type of keyboard you want it to open with as a default?

Maybe change it and save the default preset? BTW, did you really need to quote that huge post in its entirety so you could ask this simple question? It makes threads more work to read than they need to be.

[Ou_Tis]

EDIT: As far as I know, this is the only synth with such MPE luxury.
LION has it, biotek2 has it, cypher 2 of course, vaporizer2, i think MSoundFactory also (LIFT), softube modular, so this luxury is more common. i can only comment on the synths i have..

Whoa, I didn't realize Biotek 2 finally implemented MPE support (in September). That definitely decreases my desire to buy Equator 2 ASAP.

OTOH having presets designed for maximal playability with the Seaboard can be a huge positive if that's done well (if not---as with some of Roli's celebrity collaborations---not so much).

The addition of multisampled instruments potentially a major positive for me though. Once they let us set the library location.

[simmo75]

I notice in the browser that you can choose between "Equator Engine" and "Equator 2 Engine", so I assume it has two completely different synth engines in there. So yeah, it seems a bit weird that they didn't do anything with the filters. I don't do much high resonance stuff so I've never really noticed. They aren't terribly characterful but they get the job done.

Is there a way you can set which type of keyboard you want it to open with as a default?

Maybe change it and save the default preset? BTW, did you really need to quote that huge post in its entirety so you could ask this simple question? It makes threads more work to read than they need to be.

I notice in the browser that you can choose between "Equator Engine" and "Equator 2 Engine", so I assume it has two completely different synth engines in there. So yeah, it seems a bit weird that they didn't do anything with the filters. I don't do much high resonance stuff so I've never really noticed. They aren't terribly characterful but they get the job done.

Is there a way you can set which type of keyboard you want it to open with as a default?

Maybe change it and save the default preset? BTW, did you really need to quote that huge post in its entirety so you could ask this simple question? It makes threads more work to read than they need to be.

Thanks for the forum tips boss man!