Live 11 - Many bitter comments on their Facebook

[antic604]

...reason is also unpredictable...

Well, at least we know high-res update is coming in 2021, as per "hidden" folder in their 20th anniversary "goodie bag"

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/20-years-of-reason

[chk071]

It is a weird model for software in general having the same upgrade price irrespective of how close you are to the current version

Not uncommon though. NI or Presonus have it as well.

Anyway, I'm still unsure about why exactly some people think they have to upgrade or it's the end of the world. I sit on the forelast version of my DAW, and have a couple of synths I didn't upgrade to the latest version either. You won't immediately stop being able to do music if you don't. You also set a good sign for yourself and for the company if you're not content with their upgrade policy (even though I really don't understand it in this case, especially with the usual buying power of consumers).

[WasteLand]

...reason is also unpredictable...

Well, at least we know high-res update is coming in 2021, as per "hidden" folder in their 20th anniversary "goodie bag"

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/20-years-of-reason

a goodie bag! it is in a hidden folder? i don't use refills, but now i am curious. o there is more even in the goodie bag, digital t-shirts! o well, still like reason, and i hope it is not a payed update............ (or else my planning, for the first time, after buying an arsenal, even bitwig... get's messed up...)

[antic604]

...and i hope it is not a payed update...

You can certainly hope

[antic604]

...I really don't understand it in this case, especially with the usual buying power of consumers...

Yeah, this is especially curious.

10->11 is a much bigger and on top of that EUR50 cheaper upgrade than 9->10 was (even though I loved that one, too). Not to start a shit storm - again - but Bitwig's annual upgrade plan renewal is EUR169 (or EUR129 discounted). Those who complain about 11 upgrade would go crazy with Bitwig business model

[SLiC]

...I really don't understand it in this case, especially with the usual buying power of consumers...

Yeah, this is especially curious.

10->11 is a much bigger and on top of that EUR50 cheaper upgrade than 9->10 was (even though I loved that one, too). Not to start a shit storm - again - but Bitwig's annual upgrade plan renewal is EUR169 (or EUR129 discounted). Those who complain about 11 upgrade would go crazy with Bitwig business model

If you just updated Bitwig once 2 years for EUR129 you would be getting a pretty massive update for not much money (and your 1 year free would give you the equivalent of your free 0.5 update post purchase...)

No difference really and I like not having to wait 2 years for updates-it has been a LONG wait with Live to get anything new since 10.1....I almost lost hope!

[tooneba]

...I really don't understand it in this case, especially with the usual buying power of consumers...

Yeah, this is especially curious.

10->11 is a much bigger and on top of that EUR50 cheaper upgrade than 9->10 was (even though I loved that one, too). Not to start a shit storm - again - but Bitwig's annual upgrade plan renewal is EUR169 (or EUR129 discounted). Those who complain about 11 upgrade would go crazy with Bitwig business model

It’s because of forced Max for Live license since 10 Suite. But I don’t remember whether non-upgrade package of suite price was also revised or not.

[revvy]

So from my Live 9 to 10 now (with free 11) is the same price as, say, from Live 8 or Live 7?

If that's the case then for me, at least, it's good news. I like the look of 11 but 9 serves me well enough, so I can definitely wait for a v12 (unless HW or OS related stuff throws a spanner in the works).

[sacer]

I can't understand the frustration about Live 11 update. Version 10 is very stable and they can use it as long as they want. Compared to bitwig im missing so much things in Bitwig that i can't justify 130€ for a one year update.
Ableton has since Version 9 a long period of 4 years, when a new Live Version comes out:
2013 = 9
2018 = 10
2021 =11
I started Beta and if you buy now in Advance you get a lot of new features if you are on MPE and in the next 3 to 5 years there will come a lot of new features within Version 11 and you don't have to renew every year your update license like in bitwig and you are not missing elementary features ?

Was there the same Protest with Cubase 11 too ?
Steinberg charges a lot of more money to upgrade every year from 10 to 10.5 to 11

[SLiC]

... and you don't have to renew every year your update license like in bitwig and you are not missing elementary features ?

You dint have to upgrade every year with Bitwig, you just upgrade when ever you think there is enough new stuff to bother upgrading (then you get the next year of new stuff as well as a bonus)

Bitwig also has a heck of a lot of 'elementary' features that Live is missing like 'in clip editing', session and arrange 'at the same time', a browser with unlimited (smart) collections etc. The unified modulation system is vastly superior to the MAX modulation stuff and the grid is vastly superior to MAX in terms of integration and ease of use. In many ways Live is just catching up with some of Bitwigs features that have been there a long time like MPE and Multi-editing.

That said, as someone who uses both, I think Live 11 has made Live the more interesting proposition as comping is very important to me...but expect Bitwig 4 to fight back with a lot more cool stuff Live doesn't have (and hopefully comping!), that's just the way this game works (and its win-win for me!)

[sacer]

... and you don't have to renew every year your update license like in bitwig and you are not missing elementary features ?

yes the modulation in bitwig is very superrior compared to m4l and was the reason, that I renewed my update plan again.
I started with Bitwig 1 to play MPE with ROli and Linstumment, but there are so much elemtary options in bitwig missing, that i doupt they will integrate this in bitwig 4.
You cannot map midi in bitwig, there is no table where you can input or select a midi device, all you can do is midi learn. If you use the seaboard and want to use the X / Y Pad, which is automaticly mapped in Ableton, it isn't mapped in bitwig.
Only Equator has mapped X/Y Pad in Bitwig, for Roli Studio, Cypher2 and Strobe2 you have to map the X/Y Pad.
So you have to change the midi channel for X/Y Pad in Roli Dashboard to 114 / 114 for mapping, because Midi Learn has problems with both parameters simultaniously. ALso you cannot safe your mapped instrument as a preset rack like in ableton.
Also the MPE enable button is very hidden, since a Bitwig 2 Update.
Now in Ableton 11 MPE works perfect and all the Roli Devices and Fxpansion synths are mapped as they should, just plug and play.
The only advance in Bitwig is the modulation and the grid, they are very easy with good visualtisation. The K-devices in max 4 live are nice, but not comparable. Also the grid is very cool to modulate VST in 3.3
An other advance in BItwig could be touch support, but there i prefer Touchable Pro, which works also with my notebook on touchscreen and you can add some ipads. A lot of features have been introduced in BItwig, but haven't been fixed or improved.
I am very unhappy that i have renewed my Bitwig license, because the most basic stuff is such a workflow killer, that prefer Ableton for making music and use bitwig only for some crazy modulation stuff, but not for a serious production.

[ReleaseCandidate]

Bitwig also has a heck of a lot of 'elementary' features that Live is missing like 'in clip editing', session and arrange 'at the same time', a browser with unlimited (smart) collections etc. The unified modulation system is vastly superior to the MAX modulation stuff and the grid is vastly superior to MAX in terms of integration and ease of use. In many ways Live is just catching up with some of Bitwigs features that have been there a long time like MPE and Multi-editing.

Yes, that's true, although 11 with the new clip-multiediting, comping, linked tracks, probability and the follow actions it again re-gained overall in the basic compositing process.
But I really hope Ableton get's some inspiration from Bitwig's browser (no, 7 tags ain't many) and that the automation of racks chain selectors shows the name of chain instead of the Index. And the ability to disable and hide tracks and Bitwig's bounce.
And both could use some serious new features for mixing.

[whyterabbyt]

...I really don't understand it in this case, especially with the usual buying power of consumers...

Yeah, this is especially curious.

10->11 is a much bigger and on top of that EUR50 cheaper upgrade than 9->10 was (even though I loved that one, too). Not to start a shit storm - again - but Bitwig's annual upgrade plan renewal is EUR169 (or EUR129 discounted). Those who complain about 11 upgrade would go crazy with Bitwig business model

It’s because of forced Max for Live license since 10 Suite.

Yeah, obviously. Even though Max for Live was in the v9 Suite.

[SLiC]

Bitwig also has a heck of a lot of 'elementary' features that Live is missing like 'in clip editing', session and arrange 'at the same time', a browser with unlimited (smart) collections etc. The unified modulation system is vastly superior to the MAX modulation stuff and the grid is vastly superior to MAX in terms of integration and ease of use. In many ways Live is just catching up with some of Bitwigs features that have been there a long time like MPE and Multi-editing.

Yes, that's true, although 11 with the new clip-multiediting, comping, linked tracks, probability and the follow actions it again re-gained overall in the basic compositing process.
But I really hope Ableton get's some inspiration from Bitwig's browser (no, 7 tags ain't many) and that the automation of racks chain selectors shows the name of chain instead of the Index. And the ability to disable and hide tracks and Bitwig's bounce.
And both could use some serious new features for mixing.

They definitely both have pro's and con's and I enjoy them both...I'm not sure its a race (as they are possibly running in different directions) but if I had to call it and I could only have one of them, then it may be Live at the level of features at 3.3 Vs 11...but that could just as easily swap around again after the next Bitwig update which is why I am happy to won them both!

[davidka]

@Beta testers: Did you try the new Chorus/Ensemble and Phaser/Flanger effects in Live11? What is your opinion, how do they compare to 3rd party plugins?