EWQLSO, GPO, GOS.....which??!

[Kanjika]

So im thinking about buying a new orchestral library Because all i seem to be doing is orchestral lately, and i like it . Ive been using edirol orchestral and....its not THAT good. Its ok but i need somethin better. My choices are GOS lite,GPO, or EWQLSO Silver cause im not rich :p


Ive heard good and bad things about GPO. Some say the violins are out of tune or that its not enough for their needs, but how does GPO compare to GOS lite? (despite all the extra junk GPO comes with). I need something with decent solo instruments but ive heard that EWQLSO is weak when it comes to solo.

Im really leaning towards QLSO Silver. The demos seem very convincing. GOS Lite also sounds good to me but GPO doesnt sound that great

SO my question is through all this rambling Which is the best overall? I need good Solo instruments but also a Big sound....

[WillieJenkins]

Kanjika, if you want solo instruments, I'd vote against QLSO Silver, even though, its the most realistic and best bang for your buck imo (especially if you ever consider upgrading).

However, if you'd be willing to spend ~$600, you could get QLSO Silver, and QLSO SilverPro which adds a significant number of solo articulations.

If you don't want to spend that much, then go with GPO. Its not my favorite sounding lib, but Gary Garritan has great support, cares about the product, and is committed to it. Very respectible product.

Personally I use QLSO Gold, and can't wait to upgrade to QLSO GoldPro.

Below is the list of the SilverPro articulations.

SILVER PROFESSIONAL (SilverPro)

STRINGS

3 Cellos
*Sus Vib mp
*Sus Vib f heavy vib
*flautando nv

4 Violins
*Sus Vib mp
*Sus Vib f heavy vib
*flautando nv

10 Cellos
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato F
*Marcato short FFF ugly x2
*Spiccato up Down
*Sordino mp med vib
*Sordino mf heavy vib
*Bartok Pizz

10 Violas
*Pizz P
*Pizz MF
*Pizz F
*Qlegato MP
*Qlegato MF
*Sordino MP med vib
*Sordino MF heavy vib
*Tremolo F
*Spiccato up down
*Bartok Pizz

11 Violins
*Qlegato P
*Qlegato F
*Sordino MP med vib
*Sordino MF heavy vib
*Harmonics false
*Staccato Up Down P x2
*Pendereki bridge and normal stac and long
*Spiccato Up Down

18 Violins
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato f
*spiccato up down x 2
*Bartok Pizz

Harp
*wholetone stuff C

*wholetone stuff C#

Solo Cello
*Sul Tasto 2 bows
*Qlegato F 3 bows
*Pizzicato MP
*Pizzicato MF
*Pizzicato F

Solo Contrabass
*Sus Vib mp
*Sus Vib f
*Martele Short Up Down mp
*Martele Short Up Down f
*Martele short up down mf
*Spiccato Up Down F
*Pizz mp
*Pizz mf
*Pizz F
*Exp long subtle mp
*Marcato FFF short

Solo Viola
*Sus Vib mp 2 bows
*Sus Vib f 2 bows
*Qlegato mp 3 bows
*Marcato FF short
*Martele short Up Down x4 MF
*Pizz mp
*Pizz mf
*Pizz f
*Exp subtle soft long
*Spiccato Up Down MP
*Sus NV MF with fast atk

Solo Violin
*Qlegato MP 3 bows
*Qlegato F 3 bows
*Pizzicato P
*Pizzicato MF
*Pizzicato F
*Spiccato Up Down
*Marcato short FF nv
*Subtle exp P leg light vib no swell
*Octave slide up to 2 sec sus mp bow on string
*Octave slide down to 2 sec sus mp

WOODWINDS

Bass Clarinet
*Sus NV mf to go in between last time
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato mf

English Horn 2 dark and beautiful
*Sus Vib mp smooth fast atk delay vib
*Exp subtle mp atk
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato mf
*Exp mf lyrical miroslav
*Staccato mp
*Staccato mf
*Staccato F

Concert Flute
*very short staccato mp
*very short staccato mf
*very short staccato f
*short staccato overblown
*1/2 step trills
*Whole step trills
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato f
*sus nv p

Piccolo Flute
*NV p
*Qlegato mf vib
*Rips up 5th FFF squeak fast x2

Solo Bassoon
*mp vibrato with atk
*Qlegato mf

Solo Clarinet
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato mf
*Portato subtle 3 seconds mp
*1/2 Step trills
*Whole step trills

Solo Oboe
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato f
*soft exp with slight swell

BRASS

2 Bb Trumpets
*Mute Sus mp
*Mute Sus f
*Mute Staccato mp x 4
*Mute Staccato f x4
*VERY short staccato mp x6
*VERY short staccato mf x6
*VERY short staccato ff x6
*Sus mp
*Sus mf
*Sus fff
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato mf

4 Bass Bones
*Mute Sus mp
*Mute Sus f
*Mute staccato mp x2
*Mute staccato mf x2
*Sus FFF
*stac fff x 3 very short

4 Tenor Bones
*Mute Sus mp
*Mute Sus mf
*Mute staccato mp x3
*Mute staccato mf x3
*Sus FFF
*stac fff x 4 very short

6 French Horns
*Marcato f 1 sec
*Stac short mp x2
*Stac short mf x2
*Stac short f x2
*Stac short ff x2
*Muted Sustain mf
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato f typical med bright
*Clusters

Piccolo trumpet
*Sus mp
*Sus f
*Stac mp x2
*Stac f x2
*1/2 step trills
*Whole step trills
*Marcato mf

Solo Bass Bone
*Sus fff
*Portato 3 sec mf
*Portato 3 sec f
*Marcato f 1 sec
*Stac mp
*Stac mf
*Stac ff

Solo Bb Trumpet 2
*Sus NV mp
*Sus NV mf
*Sus NV ff
*Stac short mp x8
*Stac short mf x8
*Stac short ff x8
*Crescendo NV P-FF 2 sec
*Qlegato mp NV
*Qlegato mf NV
*Qlegato mp slow immediate vib
*Qlegato mf slow immediate vib

Solo Horn
*Staccato short p
*Staccato short mp
*Staccato short mf
*Qlegato mp
*Qlegato mf-f
*Staccato short FF

Solo Tenor Bone Sus fff
*Stac fff
*Portato 3 sec mf
*Marcato f 1 sec
*Qlegato MP
*Qlegato F

Solo Tuba
*Sus FF
*Portato 3 sec MF
*Stac FFFF short

ORCHESTRAL PERCUSSION

*Celeste 2 vel + rel
*Marimba 3 vel
*Sleigh bells
*Wood Blocks
*2 different Triangle open mute trem
*Larger Anvil
*Tambourine high pitch
*small guiro
*Harpsichord
*Washboard
*37" Tam Tam fx
*26" Zildjian Ride

[shush]

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I own most of the major orchestral libraries and I really like the sound of GPO.

For solo instruments, I don't think any other library comes close to the number of solo instruments in GPO. GPO is based on the concept of providing many solo instruments so that you can create your own ensembles. I personally like the concept of creating instrumentation of my choosing. There have been some impressive demos of horn and string sections using solo GPO instruments.

I believe that the GPO strings were derived from the GOS set but you should check at the Garritan forum about that. Also, the GOS Lite may have been discontinued. As far as tuning, I haven't encountered any tuning problems and this doesn't seem to have been a concern raised on the Garritan forum since I've been there.

The instruments sound great. You get a lot of solo instrument choices - for instance you get to choose between a Stradivarius, a Guarneri or a Gaglian solo violin. There's also four different oboes to choose from, several different tubas, eight french horns, many woodwinds (even a contrabass clarinet and oboe d'amour), ample brass, percussion as well as a Steinway and Pipe Organ. It's quite a comprehensive collection of solo instruments,more so than any other libary.

It seems from the Garritan website that GPO is being used in television shows, musical theatre, independent films, live performances and universities. So there's a lot of pros that like the library and it has received great reviews in the music mags. There's a couple of hundred user demos on Garritan's site www.garritan.com (http://www.garritan.com). Many of them are excelent and they cover a wide variety of styles.

I don't think the extra programs in GPO are 'junk' - there's GPO studio which is a VST Host (developed by the Plogue folks) that lets you use GPO with notation programs. Magnus's Ambience reverb (which is also included in GPO) has received rave reviews. Overture is great if you don't have a notation program. If you have a sequencer then you probably won't need the Steinberg program.

Since you mentioned you were not rich, GPO is 20% less than Silver and far far less than buying the few individual instruments offered by VSL and Donnie Christian. For $249 GPO is a no brainer.

[pitchdrifter]

There is no single one library that does it all. Ideally you put together an arsenal picked from several libs.

On the subject of the particular libraries, while GPO is certainly good, its more of an orchestral sketch tool (and advertised as such by Garry), and certainly worth it's money for that. It also can be run on a single computer without the need for dedicated sample playback computers. The samples are close miked and without natural reverb/ambience (i dont mean the reverb vst fx called 'ambience' btw).

Of the smaller QLSO versions Gold is the one that seems to have the most bang for the buck to me. It also can be run on a single machine. It's samples have natural ambience on them. The lib has more articulations than GPO does.

GOS is a pure strings library and costs more than GPO and QLSO Gold together. Therefore you'll probably want to go with something else.

Basically, either go GPO or QLSO Gold, if you want a kit covering the entire orchestra.

On top of that if your budget permits you can invest in polishing the timbres of your home-orchestra by getting specific libraries, like SAM Brass libs (Trombones, Trumpets, Horns in sections and solo), Donnie Chrstian woodwinds (he has solo woodwinds for USD 99 each, and sound good). I would recommend you check the websites out (easy to google) and check out the sample mp3s/wavs.
Layering these additional samples with your GPO or QLSO Gold can improve the sound of your work a lot.

Of course don't forget that you need to practice writing orchestral mockups, its not like writing for real orchestra, as you have to work a lot of tricks to achieve a convincing sound. And while the samples' quality certainly gives you a big and vital boost in that regard, at least equally important is knowing how to actually use these samples and what specific techniques to employ.
If you want a bit of starter help to get into this I'd recommend getting Paul Gilreath's book 'The Guide to Midi Orchestration' (just came out in it's 3rd edition).

Furthermore there is a forum specifically for orchestral mockup composers, called V.I. control, which is a rather nice and friendly place with a lot of helpful people who can give you very valuable feedback and advice. There also is the Northern Sound forum.


hope this helps

Markus

[Kanjika]

Dont worry, im plenty good at writing orchestral music (which is why i want a better library).

SO it looks as if i want one library to cover it all ill have to wait. Either i wait till the updates are released or wait till i have the money

Ive heard about the "big band" edition of GPO. How much is that going to be?

(btw i looked at more mp3s of QLSO Siver, and the Viola at the begging of "Berlin" sounds awesome, and its a solo instrument....the demo is on soundsonline)

[pitchdrifter]

Theres never going to be a 'do it all' library. Not even VSL symphonic cube once its out will the end all library. You'll stil want to layer other samples (maybe even your own) with that.

[Kanjika]

VSL seems like the "library to end all libraries"...


I think im gonna go Silver....and get the upgrade in the future.

[Syncopator]

VSL seems like the "library to end all libraries"

Perhaps. But from what I understand, it's a bee-atch to program/operate. There are so many variations/articulations/patches/etc. that one has to spend an inordinate amount of time setting up to play, instead of actually playing.

It's powerful, allowing you to create the ultimate nuance and realism, but at a price: time and setup. I prefer libraries that sound great, even if they're somewhat less programmable, but that let me pull up "basic" patches and simply *play* (or rather, sequence).

[WillieJenkins]

Yeah, its all about tradeoffs, and whatnot.

Still to my ears, nothing beats that realistic hall sound of QLSO for outright 'beautiful sound', especially when lots of the orchestra starts chugging.

VSL however has that legato tool, check some of those French Oboe demos at VSL's site!!!!!

So as most people have been saying, its a mix of libs that will give you what you want.

I can't speak about V.I. site, but at NS it seems alot of composers tend to use QLSO or VSL as their base, and augment with pieces of the other, and add in the wonderful SAM libs for more powerful horns and things of that nature.

One thing to remember also, is Kirk Hunter is coming out with an orchestral lib, SI just released some new... brass I think? SAM has some new stuff coming, and QLSO Gold Pro is due Q1 2005. So there are lots of things in the pipelines.

IF you have the time, it might be good to buy something small now, and see how things shake out.

[Rellik]

Hmm... I'm sort of in the same situation, except I don't really have to buy one of the libraries yet, just thinking about it for the future .

I've heard that QLSO is not the best for 'small' ensembles, partially due to its natural reverb and its pre-panning (which, apparently, if you try to adjust, will mess up the sound of the sample?). So if I wanted less reverb than the natural reverb applies, I would be out of luck (or could I just adjust the envelope to cut it off?).

GPO has been my first choice in this are for a while, mainly due to the demos and the price. If it sounds so good, I don't see what exactly the problem with it is; it may be aimed at "orchestral mockups", but as somebody mentioned, it's being used a lot for even commercial stuff.

It truly is a difficult position.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt the VSL talk (it is interesting stuff).

[Donnie]

None of the above

Check out the demos here:

http://www.donniechristianstudioa.com/demos.htm


Thansk for listening!

Donnie

[zircon]

Well, I would say that GPO is definitely the best tool for mockups around, but less of a replacement for a real orchestra (except the solo instruments). The notation software and Ambience included is nice, and it's extremely easy to use. Someone mentioned that there is no library that 'does everything' and they're probably right, but GPO comes pretty close. However, if you want as many sounds as possible, your best bet is EWQLSO Silver (or Gold or whatever), if not for the simple reason that QLSO includes VOTA choir parts and GPO lacks a choir.

Alternatively, you could get Symphony of Voices and use it with GPO - that's a pretty killer combo.