Imposter Syndrome and lack of musical production

[Hink]

simple definition

Imposter syndrome can be defined as a collection of feelings of inadequacy that persist despite evident success. 'Imposters' suffer from chronic self-doubt and a sense of intellectual fraudulence that override any feelings of success or external proof of their competence

I have been told by doctors, therapists and counselors that I can be self sabotaging due to a fear of success...what is fear of success but Imposter Syndrome, I rarely finish anything.

Does anyone (else) feel this may hinder their musical production?

[imrae]

I wrote a song about it!

https://imrae.bandcamp.com/track/human-in-disguise

[schmerzschlag]

I'm as guilty. Maybe not in terms of music production. I rather experience it in my actual job, which is writing (not English obviously). I'm a published writer, contracted to a renown literary agency, publishing in quite big publishing houses. Even fookin' Wikipedia knows me. ;D I'm not famous, selling books in the thousands, not tens of thousands. I'm able to make a living off of writing. So I am successful to a certain degree. Yet each and everytime I'm working on a new book, the little bastard in the back of my head gets to me.

But I think it's just normal. Everyone who gets past Dunning-Kruger and does some kind of art in which some craft is involved, knows this. I personally know writers who deliver surefire entries to the Spiegel-Bestsellerliste everytime they put something out and they all suffer from the same little bastard. No matter how successful they are.

What may be helpful from my own personal experience are two things.
First thing: Know your craft. Know the "rules" and learn when and why to break them. So all your artistic decisions are based upon knowledge. It's not a cure, but it helps.
Second thing is: go with Bukowski. Or Yoda. Don't try. Just do.

what is fear of success but Imposter Syndrome,

In my opinion it's not the same. They are pages of the same book, but a bit different. The Imposter Syndrome makes me doubt myself and infuriates a fear of getting exposed. Fear of success is more like keeping things lowkey, not pulling the trigger because if I do, there is no way back. I may have to get out of my comfort zone. Visiting more bookstores, following the marketing plan and stuff like that. The devil's in the detail, because Imposter Syndrome inforces the fear of success. More success means more exposition to more people, and then they'll get me, right?
And being a writer is not like being a music producer. I can't go full Deadmau5 and wear a damn mask. So maybe, just maybe I don't want to be the biggest fish in the pond. Because then they'll get me. They always go for the big one, right?

I guess as far as music production goes, I have the problem with mixing. It's like that: I can't mix. I just can't and I know it. Yet I learned quite a bit about it. So maybe I don't know nothing anymore. But I can't, because what am I? A freakin' mixing engineer? No. I can't mix. And I can't change it, because I have no room and no monitors and I can't change this either. So if I can't mix I won't ever be successful, because who would even listen to this fraudulent crap compiled of sounds and resonances?
And there you have it: Imposter going hand in hand with fear of success.
But as far as music production is concerned, I just don't care. I just do, what I do.

[Karmoon]

Hans Zimmer said he experienced imposter syndrome while working on Gladiator. Hans Zimmer...the guy who gets Spitfire making libraries with him.

This is important because it happens to musicians who are undoubtedly successful. It's not just something for little people.

Also, I had a bit of wobbly some time ago. I was studying scores from John Williams and Koji Kondo, and their sheer amount of skill just floored me. I'm like, why even bother? I can never reach those heights.

One of the guys on the project I'm on told me, "Dude, if we wanted John Williams, we would have hired someone like him. We listened to your music. We spoke to you. We wanted you on our team."

That helped a ton.

People with good taste often feel this way. The fact is that the quality our ear and brain desires is greater than our experience can deliver at this current time.

In my opinion, one approach to dealing with this is as follows:

1. Experience is King and it really matters. I mentioned John Williams earlier. I discovered that he has been scoring films professionally for longer than I've been alive - and I'm no spring chicken. Of course his work is higher quality than mine. That's not an indictment of value, that's just logical. We must practice as much as possible.

2. Correcting misconceptions of what failure is. I think people like us define failure as something that doesn't match our vision. We pour hours into a piece, and it still sounds shite compared to what we wanted. However, this is not actually failure, not by a long shot. The experience gained from this work is of vital importance - even if you just learn something new about your DAW for that project, that knowledge helps you in the long run.

So what is true failure? True failure is not doing anything. True failure is procrastination. Obviously, we should always try to improve an think about what we do, but it's better to write rubbish on auto pilot than wallow in self-depricating feelings. Even in this scenario, repeating your steps may make you faster with DAW operations. That saves months in the long run. Totally worth it.

Failure is not doing anything. And true failure is quitting. That's it.

3. Understanding that art is iterative.
It's too easy for me to listen to my favourite bands/composers and just be blown away and feel like i can't compare. I have this totally illogical vision in my head that they sit down in their perfect studios in their perfect lives and a masterpiece flows out into their DAW in time for dinner. That's nonsense. Every action a human takes benefits from iteration - doesn't need to be art. If you bake a lasagne, your 10th lasagne will undoubtedly be better than your first 2 or 3. That is just how our species operates (presuming everyone here is human, but I assume it's similar for any sentient species). Van Halen's solo for Michael Jackson's "Beat It" was a true anomaly, not the standard.

4. Learning to have fun.
Fun is vital because it keeps you invested long-term where the true magic can happen. You can't have fun if you're a perfectionist constantly putting pressure on yourself. This is why doing creative things outside your field can be hugely beneficial. So if you're an orchestral composer, grab some synths and samples and try making some old-school techno. If you're an EDM master, pickup a guitar and try flamenco. Do something you have no idea about and thus don't put any pressure on yourself to succeed.

This doesn't apply to just music either. You can try drawing, coding, photography, cooking, writing. Other creative disciplines help give you a different perspective into music as a whole. David Bowie painted a lot and said it was beneficial to his process.

Sorry for the huge rant. This subject is quite close to me and I have been spending a lot of time thinking about it and also trying to deal with it.

Let us remember that things like this and depression are rarely truly beaten. So let's think of strength as not being impervious to these things, but instead the ability to cope with and pick ourselves back up.

All the best to everyone here.

[OzoneJunkie]

It's an interesting topic. I think there's a prevalence of the other side as well - over-confident people in the music industry who just aren't that talented, or maybe I should say (because I dislike the idea of things being 'pre-decided' at birth) people who don't work that much on their craft and so are lacking in skills. I suspect that the average KVR'er has enough skills to create most of what is popular these days. And perhaps we get hung up on the details of the craft too often.

Additionally, I think it's interesting that well known 'artists' in the music industry tend to be very colorful in character, and that often plays well to the audience. Some famous people are very cartoon-character like.

[recursive one]

Does anyone (else) feel this may hinder their musical production?

Maybe.

i often struggle with calling tracks finished. At the very final stages I start getting very nervous about my productions, like "what if that hi-hat is too harsh, or that snare sounds not punchy enough, or the filter modulation on this synth sounds wrong in places.... what if my followers at soundcloud (all 223 of them! ) would notice that?"

This is utterly counter-prodcutive especially since I make music only as a hobby, and I guess this may distract me from fixing the actual flaws my tracks my have (like weak melodies, insonsistent arrangements, idk what else) but I can't get past it.

[jancivil]

It's the opposite of Dunning-Kruger Effect and is typically mentioned in discussion of.
I don't suffer from a self-critical or -effacing tendency stopping me, but I feel like a beginner just about every time I start a project; I don't know what I'm doing. Similar to this is when I know I've done something outstanding, after the fact (and with a bit of distance from the experience) I don't know how I did it particularly, it seems doubtful that I would even know how. It all happens in a zone, there isn't anything like 'is this good enough', 'who would like this' or other extraneous bullshit. I could place that species within the general "You can't think and play at the same time" - Sonny Rollins

[donkey tugger]

It's the opposite of Dunning-Kruger Effect and is typically mentioned in discussion of.
I don't suffer from a self-critical or -effacing tendency stopping me, but I feel like a beginner just about every time I start a project; I don't know what I'm doing. Similar to this is when I know I've done something outstanding, after the fact (and with a bit of distance from the experience) I don't know how I did it particularly, it seems doubtful that I would even know how. It all happens in a zone, there isn't anything like 'is this good enough', 'who would like this' or other extraneous bullshit. I could place that species within the general "You can't think and play at the same time" - Sonny Rollins

Hehe, know it well! The bit about feeling like a beginner is something I've thought about before. Sometimes seems similar to the sensation I used to get (long ago....) before exams where I couldn't remember anything. Of course as soon as I got started I'd go on autopilot like you describe above. Same happens with music once I get going, which is why I've learned not to worry about 'writers block', and the like - it will come back when the time is right, the luxury of being a hobbyist.

[jancivil]

<The fact is that the quality our ear and brain desires is greater than our experience can deliver at this current time>
Always, which is where the drive to improve lies. You simply have to go for it and forget that you're not necessarily up to it.
And you have to embrace failure. The converse of this is that guy who thinks they can't suck or can't ever to have sucked, or fronts that in their insecurity.

[jancivil]

I think the concept of writer's block is poison. So you figure you want to do something, in order to 'be productive' or because, hey, the tools are there, I have no excuse not to do something right now; and it isn't happening. Here our options are 1) see if you can access the technique to do something, and strategize via concocting an exercise, or something more abstractly; and 2) be patient and examine your setup and the particulars of preparation, ie., oblique strategies (maybe there's one or more aspect that simply has to be dropped, and you learn what 'cut your losses' is about). Or 3) let the language 'I have teh writer's block, oh noes' overrule your better self.

[empphryio]

People claiming they have imposters syndrome are generally bragging about how humble they are.

[Michael L]

do something

That's it, in two words.

Analysing (my mind, my life, my project) puts me into a judgmental, verbal, rational and thus non-creative headspace. When I get stuck creating, it's because I got analytical. You can only analyse after you create something. And human life is inherently creative.

To get back in touch with life, I make distraction-free time to deep dive into the details of the project to find one simple, basic, concrete action I can play with to progress the project ("Could I express those conflicting moods if I transposed to a Shostakovich scale ").

Playing with something puts me into a non-verbal, surprising, spontaneous and creative headspace. Sleeping on it also helps. Once I have something to go on, one thing leads to another.

[jancivil]

I find that much - probably most - of the time what the something is is not what I set out to do, quite. So, the setting out to do, the original notion or fantasy of what it *should* be, is not necessarily a thing to be married to. This is a cliche, but it is because it's true, if you're true to the music or the muse there is the possibility that there is something there, already extant but needing to be discovered; which you want to reveal by removing what isn't essential to this idea (like a cloud). and it's more about catching the idea (a la David Lynch's way of framing) rather than being the God of these nascent and perhaps elusive objects & trying to will something into being that is perhaps not very true.

[jancivil]

Sleeping on it is huge. The unconscious mind has everything to work with, as opposed to the conscious, stupid mind. So you can go to bed with a very fascinating mess and come back to it rather more sorted.

[Michael L]

The unconscious mind has everything to work with, as opposed to the conscious, stupid mind.

This gets to the heart of it.


Instead of inventing "Impostor Syndrome" and asking people to take apart the machinery of their stupid mind, a doctor should ask people to make quiet time to follow their unconscious to see where they will go and what they will see.

Quick story: Carl Jung had a client, Dora Kalff. Carl encouraged Dora to become a sandplay therapist. Her method was to just create a safe space for distressed children to play, trusting that their unconscious would reveal a better world. I attended a talk Dora gave (at a conference of LSD chemists and doctors) in which she simply presented before/after photos of sandtrays with no analysis because those images 'spoke for themselves' in their own language. It was deeply moving.