eXT: What You're Waiting for Before You'll Switch
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silicon/silicium silicon/silicium https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=33009
- KVRAF
- 1758 posts since 13 Jul, 2004
ow, I hate the always resizing tracktion interface. I would love this software if resinzing and navigating would be better. I love the way tracktion handle audio, but please, no such a navigation, that's a real disaster...
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- KVRAF
- 25009 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
the in-track-editing state of a track is separated from it's normal state within eXT.Lunch Money wrote:Bah!
Tracktion's tracks are a mess, but not because of resizing. More, it's because of lack of track folders (yay, XT!) and not being able to select particular tracks for resizing. The actual resizing algorithm isn't the culprit.
However, Jens, it IS a zoomable and vertically resizable in-track editor that I guess I really want. I don't see how this is different than what I originally said. <chuckle> Resizing... zooming... it amounts to the same thing!
Also it is an option but not a must(I rarely ever use it).
For Tracktion this is not the case and part of the reason why Tracktion's arranging window tends to get so messy.
this is done in the audio-editor - you just need to double-click an audio-clip - if the vertical-size in the audio-editor is too small for you it has nothing to do with the sequencer-window. Then you have a FR for the audio-editor. (it has already been requested b.t.w.Put it this way-- I can't currently look at the waveform on any reasonable scale and chop up the audio that way. Ditto for the sampler, actually. How can anyone work with waveforms that are so small on the screen?
)Also, as mentioned-- nobody is forcing you to use the function if it's there. If Tracktion becomes a mess for you, you have nobody to blame but yourself. You could have easily NOT resized those tracks, if that's what you wanted. Honestly!
Greg
I could swear that I have explained one post above yours why exactly I am in fact forced to resize the tracks every few seconds without wanting it.
I'm still waiting for a reason why you want to resize a track.
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
I think it stems from the fact that some of us like to edit on the timeline... not in a seperate window.jens wrote:I'm still waiting for a reason why you want to resize a track.
If you look at Live for example, it offers track resizing, but it's not quirky like Tracktion. It's accomplishes the balance of both eXT and Tracktion... and Live tracks don't tend to get all messy like T... so it is possible. 
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 25009 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
but I still deny the fact that it is usefulModuLR wrote:I think it stems from the fact that some of us like to edit on the timeline... not in a seperate window.jens wrote:I'm still waiting for a reason why you want to resize a track.
- you're simply liking the wrong thing
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- KVRian
- 584 posts since 10 Apr, 2004 from Malmö / Sweden
*erased*
Never mind
//Tomas
Never mind
//Tomas
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- KVRAF
- 25009 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
but now let's get serious:
The new docking-windods-system is the way to go:
If a.) the sequencer's editors would be dockable and
b.) a window could be docked more than oncce and
c.) the diffrent docks of the same window could be
placed and resized independently of each other
you could dock the midi-editor and the audio-editor to new docks. If you would double-click on any clip eXT would jump automatically to the editor'S dock.
But there you then could dock the sequencer and resize it so that it is e.g. at the bottom of the screen. Then you could e.g. jump easily from clip to clip with the editor always opened on top of the screen but at the push of a button you'd be back to the normal sequencer view.
The new docking-windods-system is the way to go:
If a.) the sequencer's editors would be dockable and
b.) a window could be docked more than oncce and
c.) the diffrent docks of the same window could be
placed and resized independently of each other
you could dock the midi-editor and the audio-editor to new docks. If you would double-click on any clip eXT would jump automatically to the editor'S dock.
But there you then could dock the sequencer and resize it so that it is e.g. at the bottom of the screen. Then you could e.g. jump easily from clip to clip with the editor always opened on top of the screen but at the push of a button you'd be back to the normal sequencer view.
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
I honestly think the docking stuff is just GREAT! Funny thing is it actually makes me want to use eXT as a VST/VSTi alot more... because gone are the days of all those floating windows.. and now it becomes really easy to use it as a piano-roll for tracktion with a single window interface.. uncheck main mixer and the scrollbars.. dock a midi part, and there ya have a full VST pianoroll... frickin' AWESOME! 
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Jens,
I think one of us is clearly missing the point, so I'll be brief and concise. Keep in mind that I'm not at ALL referring to MIDI, which I rarely use:
I want to edit on the timeline. I like to see the waveforms in relation to each other and in relation to the timeline's markers.
For example, I've recorded a guitar part, but I find that I hit the opening chord about a split second earlier than I would have liked to. I want to re-align it to the timeline, but more importantly-- to the opening bass note. I resize (ie. ZOOM, it's the same thing in this case) the track so that I have a better look at the guitar part, but I still have the bass part visible. I make a cut right at the tail or end of the first chord, so that just the opening chord is its own audio part. I eyeball my nudging so that the attack of the guitar chord comes at the same time as the bass. I listen, and if it's all good, no further nudging required.
I guess I'm beating around the bush because I don't want to compare things too closely, but yes, I DO want Tracktion's way of handling audio. There are things I would change (proper resizing and restoring of individual tracks, instead of having to 'reset all', but I'm boggled that you don't understand what I'm asking for.
Greg
I think one of us is clearly missing the point, so I'll be brief and concise. Keep in mind that I'm not at ALL referring to MIDI, which I rarely use:
I want to edit on the timeline. I like to see the waveforms in relation to each other and in relation to the timeline's markers.
For example, I've recorded a guitar part, but I find that I hit the opening chord about a split second earlier than I would have liked to. I want to re-align it to the timeline, but more importantly-- to the opening bass note. I resize (ie. ZOOM, it's the same thing in this case) the track so that I have a better look at the guitar part, but I still have the bass part visible. I make a cut right at the tail or end of the first chord, so that just the opening chord is its own audio part. I eyeball my nudging so that the attack of the guitar chord comes at the same time as the bass. I listen, and if it's all good, no further nudging required.
I guess I'm beating around the bush because I don't want to compare things too closely, but yes, I DO want Tracktion's way of handling audio. There are things I would change (proper resizing and restoring of individual tracks, instead of having to 'reset all', but I'm boggled that you don't understand what I'm asking for.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 25009 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Greg,
I bet I came a bit across as a prick
- this was not intended so please accept my honest apologies for it.
I'm not at all an agressive person in real life but somehow there's still a language-problem wich makes it sometimes hard for me to find the right tone, especially with written english because you don't hear the voice with which I say it.
about the audio-editing:
This is also important for me, but I still don't think that resizable tracks are a good idea or even useful.
I nwant top be able to cut the audio-precisely in the audio editor ( I currently can) and I want to be able
to apply precise in/out/cross-fades on the audio-snippets ( I currently can't)
The audio-clips in the sequencer are for me just building-blocks for an arrangement - I don't create their content there. The content gets's created in the audio editor. You can already set their lenght precisely, but the cutting of the material should imo be done in the audio-editor which has the potential to become very powerful. Be sure:
I record lots of guitars, basses, vocals and percussions and this is all very important to me.
I already wrote it several-times before and I will write it now again:
Tracktion's implemention of audio-editing is superb - it's the best I've ever came across.
But this is something which belongs within eXT to the audio-editor. You just have to make a simple double-click on any audio-clip and it opens - there you can cut, pan, adjust the gain, mute and solo the audio-material and hopefully much more in the future. But that it is a seperate window which doesn't disturb the workflow in the arrangement-editor is imo far far better that Tracktion's immplementation.
Tracktionesque audio-editing: Please yes, I'm all for it.
Audio-editing in the arrangement-editor: Please no!
I bet I came a bit across as a prick
- this was not intended so please accept my honest apologies for it.
I'm not at all an agressive person in real life but somehow there's still a language-problem wich makes it sometimes hard for me to find the right tone, especially with written english because you don't hear the voice with which I say it.
about the audio-editing:
This is also important for me, but I still don't think that resizable tracks are a good idea or even useful.
I nwant top be able to cut the audio-precisely in the audio editor ( I currently can) and I want to be able
to apply precise in/out/cross-fades on the audio-snippets ( I currently can't)
The audio-clips in the sequencer are for me just building-blocks for an arrangement - I don't create their content there. The content gets's created in the audio editor. You can already set their lenght precisely, but the cutting of the material should imo be done in the audio-editor which has the potential to become very powerful. Be sure:
I record lots of guitars, basses, vocals and percussions and this is all very important to me.
I already wrote it several-times before and I will write it now again:
Tracktion's implemention of audio-editing is superb - it's the best I've ever came across.
But this is something which belongs within eXT to the audio-editor. You just have to make a simple double-click on any audio-clip and it opens - there you can cut, pan, adjust the gain, mute and solo the audio-material and hopefully much more in the future. But that it is a seperate window which doesn't disturb the workflow in the arrangement-editor is imo far far better that Tracktion's immplementation.
Tracktionesque audio-editing: Please yes, I'm all for it.
Audio-editing in the arrangement-editor: Please no!
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
Double clicking & having the audio clip open in a new window will remove the visual relationship between what he is aligning with & what needs to be trimmed.
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- KVRAF
- 25009 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
sigh.. there isn't a visual relation between editing audio and arranging - that's what I'm trying to say.
It's like putting the tires on the wheel after the wheels have been attached to the car...
It's like putting the tires on the wheel after the wheels have been attached to the car...
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
I don't think he's looking for that. It sounds to me that he is looking at arranging at a more granular level and therefore wants to see one track in relation to another.jens wrote:sigh.. there isn't a visual relation between editing audio and arranging - that's what I'm trying to say.
I think I understand what he's talking about. I don't do as much arranging of audio these days as I focus pretty heavily on the midi side, but back in my n-Track days, it was really handy to zoom in on two audio tracks and see their waveforms in relation to each other to move one audio track ever so slightly to match up better with the other.
Occasionally different audio tracks are not lined up as well as you would like initially.
I think that's what he's talking about anyway - in which case I agree that it would be handy to have vertically zooming tracks as an option.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
Exactly, Caleb. I have to do this in Audition at this point if I want precision matching.
Of course, now NicFit's gonna come along & hand all of us our asses & explain how to do it already in eXT..
Of course, now NicFit's gonna come along & hand all of us our asses & explain how to do it already in eXT..