A word on trance

[tee boy]

Some techniques for dealing with reverb in trance music:

- Set up reverb busses with two seperate settings for L and R. This works great for instruments panned to the centre. For example, a percussion loop left in the centre would be provided with a full 'true' stereo ambience. This also works perfect on mono synth lines, and helps seperate stuff out.

- One long reverbs, bounce and pitchshift the wet signal to follow the music. This is a technique I knicked from (the dreaded) BT. He has a singal synth stab with a nice long verb, yet on the chord changes the verb is pitchshifted into the new key. This meant that the verb created no mix clutter or shite.

- Side chain compression on reverb signals. Once again, helps bring clarity to a dense mix. Also gives some of that 'speaker compression' type bounce! I did this on some beats the other day and it worked a charm. I have this long reverb on the clap and it was dulling the kick a little. So i sidechained the verb to the kick and problem solved!

- EQ the verb buss. Sometimes on a thick trance lead the reverb can muddy up a mix. If you shelve off everything below (at least) 150Hz you should help solve this one. I think excess bottom end is a killer for trance mixes.

- I think most people here will be familiar with the reverse reverb technique, but it can be cool to apply effects to this signal. So example, a flange sweep, or a rhythmic gating all work wonders. Not really a mixing technique but nice all the same.

[funkynuts]

- EQ the verb buss. Sometimes on a thick trance lead the reverb can muddy up a mix. If you shelve off everything below (at least) 150Hz you should help solve this one. I think excess bottom end is a killer for trance mixes.

This de-accumulation of bass works on most non bass focussed channels and in other genre,s as well as trying to have a clear focus on foreground,midground and background sounds

[tee boy]

Indeed, infact i often prefer to see mixes in terms of foreground, background etc. Again, this is where clever layering can play a part. Layering something extremely wet with something dry can work well in many situations. For instance, say you have a percussion loop with loads of verb on - duplicate the track, turn of the verb, then compress heavily and remove any bottom. What you get is the ambience and perspective of the verb'ed track, with the clarity and 'cut' of the compressed one. Same with synths, or any instrument for that matter. Take say a guitar track. Send loads to a reverb buss, then filter and process the buss. What you end up with is a nice crystal clear dry track with a lovely ambient layer behind.

For trance this technique is great for filling out lead sounds. Say you have a fairly cutting supersaw type lead sound - layer a heavily verbed, contrasting sound behind and it really fills out the mix without stealing any of the limelight.

[TVD]

The only thing i find harder about trance is making the smoother transitions and also programming a synth just right.

Also, I have an extremely picky taste in trance: most of the trance songs i like were made 1998 - 2000. I simply don't like the sound of trance in the past 3 or 4 years. I don't like any of the currently popular trance artists (Above and Beyond, Gabriel and Dresden, etc.)

It seems to me that the cheese bar has lowered dramatically (tiesto aside - hes always been a bit on the cheesey side) Keep in mind that there is such a difference between good cheese (Armin Van Buuren - Comunication, Fragma - Toca Me) and bad cheese (William Orbit - Barber's Adagio for Strings, Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400)

Is anyone else with me here?

Ahh...the power of cheese!!!

[TVD]

Indeed, I think basic step by step tutorials for making the typical sounds would be nice. I mean, how many threads have gotten blasted for asking how to make a certain 'German' bass sound Yet, Iv still to see anyone provide a decent answer to this question. I think everyone here would benefit from a sticky of this nature, even those who dislike the music. How about kick drums, how do you make yours? Beats? Synths?

Would be nice if we could do a post with all this info in for beginners to consult. Not only that, it would be great to for the more experienced of us to get an insight into how others work. I'll happily start with my receipe for nice trance kicks -


- Take a typical round 909 samples, some perfect ones in Reason and Rebirth.

- Seperate it onto three audio tracks, all sent to a buss

- On the first track, leave un processed

- On the second, compress and EQ some that the middle freq's dominate. You should aim for a nice punchy sound with no sub 150Hz.

- On the third, compress heavily and remove all the bottom end (if any has survived). Might also help if you boost at 8 - 10kHz.

- Mix the three tracks to taste.


This method allows you to control all the elements of the sound with out sacrificing anything. Sometimes if you compress a kick to get punch, you can also loose some 'umph' and body. Not with this method, just push the fader up of the high end track. Instant high compression 'pop'.


You can also get a more powerful sound by using brick wall compression and saturation on the buss. For example, Vintage Warmer is perfect for driving up an electronic kick. So is L3. 10:1, short attack, chort release compression is also great to for providing balls without loosing bottom end.


Another tip is to replace the high end kick with a sample. A nice punchy house or hip hop kick works great - something with a more 'real' sound. Use this as the high end to get a more contemporary trance kick sound.


If you want more of killer hard trance kick, stomp boxes are worth a lookin. Run a nice punching kick sound through an analog distortion box and tweak. These sounds tend to be the more heavily compressed to, and are usually the product of further layering. For example, layer a distorted top kick onto a nice big clean bottom kick.


Freeware VST's are great for making trance kicks, no lie! They sound a bit boring on there own, but if you use them to create the bottom end element of your kick, then use samples to get the upper end you can get good results. I did a really nice on using Ersdrum for the bottom, then some 909 sample for the top / mid.


Finally, a word on layering. Make sure that hits are lined up perfectly, and try experimenting with the phase. Not all sounds go together, but for ones that do its important that they are both on the money. Some hits have significant pre attacks, and these need to either be removed, or compensated for in order to layer things up right.

Wow...I learn something new today!

[tee boy]

Yep, making drums is very much like synthesis. Take the FM bell for example - you will use different operators to create the different layers of the sound... the attack, the long decay etc. Its the same with an electronic kick drum. By layering, crossfading, mixing and processing several little pieces you can create wonderful composite hits!

[tee boy]

Some tips on the typical 'hard' trance sounds.

- A hard trance cliche is the pitchbend bass sound. I guess people do this in different ways, but i would use release ENV. Eitherway, you want to have it so that the end of the note suddenly bends up or down. Combine this with appropriate amp and filter mod, and you have the 'german' sound that many have asked after. Send it through a stomp box or distortion plug and it'll be fully auf Deutsch Also, works best on oct type bass sounds.

- The lead sounds in this music are created usually by layering and detunely MANY saw waves. The reason most people cant get this sound is because they try using only 2 or 3 osc's. To get that density you need to either use unison, or stack up multiple notes. Often these are panned left and right, as in the supersaw pad sounds. JP, Virus and also the new Nord Lead 3 are all choicy pieces for this type of sound, but at the end of the day anything can do it. Its just a matter of getting the right unison and detune. Effects can also work here - phaser is a typical one, but chorus also sounds great particular on string sounds. Stereo delay is good, but it pays to filter it so that in falls off into the background. Otherwise it can become to dominate in the foreground and ruin the effect.

Another trick for these type of sound is to take premade patches, and use them as oscilators to detune. This can provide unexpected results, and also add a bit of uniqueness to this otherwise overused technique.

- Reverse reverb on a stomping kick drum. This is a total hard trance cliche. Create one of those hard punchy kicks, then send it though a rev reverb with short decay. This can then be sent through an overdrive and / or compressor to really intergrate the reverb into the hit.

[spaceman]

real music tips

on kvr

about trance

[tee boy]

For real fella! Im not exactly a HUGE trance fan but i dont mind some of the more tasteful stuff. But that isnt what this thread is about - its about engineering in a genre that is extremely difficult. Trance producers a shifty f**kers, most wont even tell you the name of their mix engineers, never mind discuss techniques! So i think it would be cool to talk about this stuff - I know i for one could learn a lot from it. Its little nuggets of info like what can be found in this thread that make the difference between 'project' mixes and the elusive 'pro' sound.

Plus think of it this way - no more 'how do i get that pro, German, hard, Tiesto... sound' threads!

[tacitus]

I was wondering if you could help. What is the best usage of both eq and compression in these cases?

1/ If the kick and bass occupy the same frequencies

2/ bass is lower than the kick

3/ bass is higher than the kick

4/ bass occupies frequencies either side of the kick.

How many db's of cut/boost on a eq or HP?