very funny Reaper response, illustrating perhaps the userbaseTrensharo wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pmLiteral wall of text. Do you actually expect people to read that?Rockatansky wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:38 pm For me, it's the other way round. I have both Cubase and Studio One, legit licenses, and I never use them, only for compatibility testing or to check on 'how to' something. They're both heavyweight, slow and cludgy to me. Constant worries about track types and routing, constant worries about selected mouse tools and 'does my version support this feature'. Reaper on the other hand opens up in a fragment of the time, doesn't require you to create named projects in folders before it allows you to do anything, and everything is just where I expect it to be. It has all the basic tools you need in sufficient quality, and it just makes sense. People who can't make sense of Reaper are usually (!) either resistant to learning its workflow because they already spent half their productive lives using another DAW, and they just don't feel like putting in the time required to learn the intricacies of a new tool, or they went into the experience expecting something negative and disappointing to start with, and thereby turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The myth of the 'steep learning curve' and 'bad MIDI editing' comes from about a decade ago, when people who had been using other software checked it out and couldn't figure it out. Reaper is used to produce award-winning music, it's used to create sounds and soundtracks for current video games, it will happily let you create anything from voice-overs to hybrid software/real-world instrument projects and even full-blown orchestra recordings with weird microphone constellations and channel counts in the hundreds (if you have the interface for it). Which is not something the affordable versions of Cubase or Studio One let you do. Since MIDI is so often mentioned as a problem: having zero MIDI issues here, never had any, not when sending it out to trigger hardware, not when recording it to trigger software, not when clicking it together in the editor. You'll have a hard time finding an equally useful and flexible DAW - but you'll have to learn to live with its weird looks (even the themes are usually shite) and the incessant flood of disbelief and/or snide remarks by fellow music makers. It's like a pair of shoes, not every pair fits everyone, and not everyone will lose their ability to walk if they wear a pair that doesn't fit them. But if you find that one pair... that ONE pair... you'll wonder how you've every managed to walk in any other pair. Since Reaper has a very permissive demo restriction (you can just keep clicking the nag screen away after it's expired, this is intentional) I would recommend that you give it a try first, and see what about it you don't like, before you pick another pair of shoes that costs a lot more and looks a bit flashier, but maybe doesn't fit you as well after all, just because someone told you they like it more than Reaper. If you find anything about Reaper that doesn't 'work' for you, at least you'll know what you're looking for in a replacement DAW and you won't have lost any money in finding that out.
And if you find Cubase "slow" and "bloated" then you have to be running on a turtle, because that's just not my experience - on my Desktop or Laptop. I can name some DAWs that absolutely do feel sluggish, like Samplitude Pro X, but Cubase is not one of them.
If you have a turtle PC, then REAPER is definitely the optimal choice for you.
Personally, I find it demotivating software to look at, and use. I used to be a tinnkerer back when I was a ComSci undergrad, but times have changed. I'd rather spend my time doing more productive things than "making my DAW usable."
And I really can't stand looking at REAPER. The most offensive parts of it aren't themeable, so that isn't even a solution (it just makes the UI/UX even MORE inconsistent, which increases the ugly factor).
Beginner - Cubase or Reaper?
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- Banned
- 2524 posts since 4 Jul, 2019
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- KVRist
- 355 posts since 30 Jun, 2009 from moon
deleted
Last edited by replicant X on Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Speedrum 2 is a hidden gem. 
- Banned
- 484 posts since 29 Jun, 2020
This.
If you learn it, it's not a huge leap to Cubase or Reaper. Cubase is quite similar and Reaper you can modify to be what ever you like
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vitocorleone123 vitocorleone123 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=333504
- KVRAF
- 2499 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW
No dongle for my DAW means never Cubase.
Tried Ableton and I was only ever frustrated and couldn’t get it working with my hardware. I spent hours. Sub optimal UI design, too.
Reaper is horrendous to even try to start using - I’ve tried a few times (before v1 even) and hated it every time. Just not for me. Makes Ableton look pretty in comparison, though!
Fruity Loops I used back in the day a few times and more recently. Meh.
Cakewalk I used when it was cakewalk, but not bandlab.
Mixbus32c is finally good, but not so good for MIDI stuff. I typically export tracks and then mix them in this semi-DAW.
I’ve used Tracktion since v2. It’s just so easy to learn and use the basics (outside the basics isn’t really better than any daw as things get convoluted in all of them). Highly recommended for beginners - especially since the free version is quite powerful. Poor built in effects, though, for all versions.
My latest: Studio One. Harder to get set up than Tracktion, but once set up is a lot more fully realized experience. I miss the easy looking across a track to see the input, notes/audio, and associated plugins - other daws make you look all over the place to see what’s associated with a track vs mixer etc.
Long story short: you have to try different DAWs to see which is for you. Don’t pick one because it’s popular or someone recommended it. Try them. But make a choice based on your workflow - and that takes time to find out in any DAW.
Tried Ableton and I was only ever frustrated and couldn’t get it working with my hardware. I spent hours. Sub optimal UI design, too.
Reaper is horrendous to even try to start using - I’ve tried a few times (before v1 even) and hated it every time. Just not for me. Makes Ableton look pretty in comparison, though!
Fruity Loops I used back in the day a few times and more recently. Meh.
Cakewalk I used when it was cakewalk, but not bandlab.
Mixbus32c is finally good, but not so good for MIDI stuff. I typically export tracks and then mix them in this semi-DAW.
I’ve used Tracktion since v2. It’s just so easy to learn and use the basics (outside the basics isn’t really better than any daw as things get convoluted in all of them). Highly recommended for beginners - especially since the free version is quite powerful. Poor built in effects, though, for all versions.
My latest: Studio One. Harder to get set up than Tracktion, but once set up is a lot more fully realized experience. I miss the easy looking across a track to see the input, notes/audio, and associated plugins - other daws make you look all over the place to see what’s associated with a track vs mixer etc.
Long story short: you have to try different DAWs to see which is for you. Don’t pick one because it’s popular or someone recommended it. Try them. But make a choice based on your workflow - and that takes time to find out in any DAW.
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alberto_balsalm alberto_balsalm https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=439809
- KVRist
- 53 posts since 24 Apr, 2019
Cubase is really expensive (including upgrades) and requires a dongle. Reaper has a fully featured trial that never actually ends (you get a nag screen), the download size is around 15mb, no registration required, and you can install a portable version (everything in one folder, doesn't crap all over the hard drive in random places like virtually every other DAW).
I honestly don't understand why people ever ask about trying Reaper, it's as easy as grabbing foobar2000 or 7-zip, or any other lightweight software.
I honestly don't understand why people ever ask about trying Reaper, it's as easy as grabbing foobar2000 or 7-zip, or any other lightweight software.
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- KVRian
- 926 posts since 24 Sep, 2016
REAPER is amazing if you spend some time with it.
SoundCloud
"I believe every music producer inherently has something unique about the way they make music. They just have to identify what makes them different, and develop it" - Max Martin
"I believe every music producer inherently has something unique about the way they make music. They just have to identify what makes them different, and develop it" - Max Martin
- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
I read the whole manual a few times and additional mixing technique books by Geoffrey Francis and then it was a great DAW I still like even if now I'm on the Cat...
All this REAPER bashing is dispensable. But I wouldn't recommend it to a complete beginner as you need much time to learn everything - isn't done in a few weeks, may be a year or so to understand most of it
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- KVRAF
- 5144 posts since 3 Oct, 2013
https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html
Cubase has a higher overall point because Reaper has only a few points in Learning and Ease of Use
tables and it more or less covers the truth about Reaper and because the question was which ones are better for a beginner: Cubase
Cubase has a higher overall point because Reaper has only a few points in Learning and Ease of Use
tables and it more or less covers the truth about Reaper and because the question was which ones are better for a beginner: Cubase
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 8 Feb, 2007 from Milwaukee, WI
I am not a REAPER evangelist, but if you want to give it a go, check out this 4 minute video - http://reaper.fm/videos.php#2dYZJmczK7o which will guide you through a series of helpful videos.
- KVRian
- 545 posts since 17 Sep, 2020
Can't really go wrong with either of the two really... Although, Studio One is probably an easier choice.
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- KVRian
- 679 posts since 29 Dec, 2019
It has some odd (IMO) feature omissions, though:felis wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:37 pm Cubase Elements - inexpensive, no dongle, relatively easy to learn while having a good balance of features, and your choice of upgrade paths.
Ref: https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/
- I'm not sure why they didn't include at least some basic MIDI FX plugins
- No Comping
- Combined Select Tool
- Workspaces
- Project Browser
- Tempo Track: But has Chord Track and Chord Pads..?
- Signature Track
- MusicXML Export (not Import)
- List Editor: Really?
- In-Place Editor
- Global Tracks
- Group-Ungroup & Lock-Unlock
- Render In-Place
- MixConsole History
- Retrologue 2: Omission of Instruments just means that they have less value in Artist/Pro, as people who onboard with Elements will likely have alternatives by the time they upgrade. This one should be standard across as SKUs, though.
- VST Transit - Although collaborating with Artist/Pro Users can be problematic due to the disparity in Plugins and other functionality.
Some of this seems like "too much," but Cubase Elements competes against the likes of:
Cakewalk by BandLab: $0 and includes:
- Basic MIDI FX (including an Arpeggiator)
- Articulation Maps
- Workspaces, Smart Tool
- Comping
- List Editor
- In-Place Editor
- Render In-Place
- MixConsole History
- MusicXML Export
- Step Sequencer (Beat Designer in Cubase is a MIDI FX)
- Basic Score (Staff) View & Editor
- Matrix View (Clip Launcher)
- VocAlign (Audio Alignment)
- Audio Quantize/Warp
- ARA 2
- OMF Import/Export
- ProChannel (like Cubase Pro Channel Strip)
The only reason to use Cubase Elements over this is for... more stock plugins and the Sampler Track... No Track Limits in Cakewalk by BandLab.
Studio One Artist: Largely analogous to Cakewalk by BandLab, except in some areas (No Note FX, No Mix Engine FX, No Score Editor, No OMF, No Clip Launcher).
Then there is REAPER, which I mention only beucase I don't want its entire cult responding "Why didn't you mention REAPER" to this post. I'm sure there are scripts or whatever for a lot of that stuff. It will look like $#!^ and it might feel like @$$ to use, but hey... it's there and they will probably convince you it was designed and developed by Apple, and feels like an Apple-level UX, if you're weak enough in your psychy.
From that perspective, I think Cubase Elements is a pretty horrible value proposition unless you're only getting it as a stepping stone to Cubase Artist -> Pro because you cannot afford to pay the higher price for the higher SKUs right now (so you upgrade and they take off the cost of the version you have to move up; meaning you don't lose money, you just delay acquiring the functionality). In some cases, Cubase Pro users will use Cubase Elements on a Laptop so that they can avoid constantly carrying/moving their dongle around when they just want to sketch some stuff on the go.
If you also create on an iPad, then Cubase is the superior offering, by far, due to Cubasis being one of the best mobile DAWs on the market. Desktop Cubase can import those projects, so Elements would make sense there.
If someone is on Windows, they should default to Cakewalk and use that $99 to get a Scarlett Solo or something. Unless you have specific technical reasons for going REAPER, even it isn't worth the $60 when Cakewalk if an option. Or, you can get a PreSonus AudioBox and use the included Studio One Artist. It's not as good as a Scarlett Solo, but it's more than close enough and an upstart won't notice the difference. Later, they can upgrade to Studio One Professional during one of the promotions.
One plus for Cubase Elements is that it has far more generous track limits than most other DAWs' "Intro" SKUs (which are often capped at 16 Tracks), and the Sampler Track is a killer feature over something like Cakewalk by BandLab for the production of some types of music (many, honestly). So, it is very usable. I just don't think I'd pay $99 for it. I'd go to Cakewalk or get Studio One Artist via bundle if I needed the sound card...
I went straight to Cubase Pro, though.
In the OP's case, I would go Cakewalk or get Studio One Artist via Bundle, if on Windows; and buy Logic Pro X if on macOS.
If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.
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- KVRAF
- 35678 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Cubase Elements competing against Studio One Artist is fair enough, but why put it against Cakewalk or Reaper? Cakewalk is rather a full blown DAW competing against Cubase Pro or Studio One Pro. Cubase Elements is the smallest version of Cubase, costing 1/6 of what the full blown version costs, so, it's obvious that it lacks features. It's a big plus that they added sidechaining though. That was one feature sorely lacking from it so far. Apart from that, I would say it's quite competitive compared to Studio One Artist, or Ableton Live Intro, which is a bit cheaper.
In the end it's really a matter of preference.
In the end it's really a matter of preference.
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ReleaseCandidate ReleaseCandidate https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=476930
- KVRian
- 620 posts since 19 Oct, 2020
Because when buying stuff the price actually matters. And they're all about the same (max. 100 EUR)chk071 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:06 pm Cubase Elements competing against Studio One Artist is fair enough, but why put it against Cakewalk or Reaper?
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- KVRAF
- 3360 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany
No, I dare to disagree!ReleaseCandidate wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:35 pmBecause when buying stuff the price actually matters. And they're all about the same (max. 100 EUR)chk071 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:06 pm Cubase Elements competing against Studio One Artist is fair enough, but why put it against Cakewalk or Reaper?
The price is not decisive. It is more important what the software should be for.
You don't say when it comes to toasters and coffee makers: "the price decides",
and then take the toaster because it's cheaper, but you actually want to
make coffee?
And the same is true with audio software: If you need entry-level software,
then buy entry-level software. And there we have:
-- Cubase Elements
-- Studio One Artist
-- Ableton Life Intro
-- Magix Music Maker
-- ...
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de