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msf sadib · Post by **msf sadib** » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:10 pm

I'm trying to play this jazz song.But I'm not seeing how 2-5-1 progression fits in this song.Can anybody explain it to me?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:44 pm

Where did you get the idea that II-V-I is obligatory for jath? I did not get that memo.

Anyway, I'd have to play or hear it to confirm or deny that. Not possible atm alas.

NAD · Post by **NAD** » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:48 pm

There's one in the last two bars: Fm Bb Eb
But yeah, just because it's jazz doesn't mean it has to have a ii-V-I progression.

msf sadib · Post by **msf sadib** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:09 am

BertKoor wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:44 pm Where did you get the idea that II-V-I is obligatory for jath? I did not get that memo.

Anyway, I'd have to play or hear it to confirm or deny that. Not possible atm alas.

Can you point out what sort of progression logic is being used here?

msf sadib · Post by **msf sadib** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:17 am

NAD wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:48 pm There's one in the last two bars: Fm Bb Eb
But yeah, just because it's jazz doesn't mean it has to have a ii-V-I progression.

Yeah I'm just a beginner trying out jazz.So I try to fit everything within 2-5-1 progression.Can you explain though why's the Progression in that picture like that and what sort of progression that is?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:01 am

It's better you have a try yourself. Write it down as Roman numericals, without the added 567's (that's just extra flavour) so you see the bare bones of the progression.

Reference to myself, this is the original:

NAD · Post by **NAD** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:04 pm

msf sadib wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:17 am Yeah I'm just a beginner trying out jazz.So I try to fit everything within 2-5-1 progression.Can you explain though why's the Progression in that picture like that and what sort of progression that is?

Don't try putting everything in a box. You would need infinite categories to describe all the possible progressions. ii-V-I just happens to be a common one, like I-vi-ii-V.
What you should do is always do a harmonic analysis of the piece you're working on, in this case:

Code: Select all

I  V | I  V | I  V | I VI |
ii   | III  | ii V | I    |

Notice for example how the raised fifth in the V chord gives it a tasty spicy flavor, or how a major VI has a fun silly feel compared to a minor vi chord. Don't try to memorize this stuff, just pay attention. Familiarity will come from experience.

ecsmix · Post by **ecsmix** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:58 pm

Hi msf sadib, NAD nailed for you.

Remember, the composer can think on ii-v-I , then REHARM them, some of the chords, even simple changes like I = iii = vi, SUB V, paralel minor chords, etc..

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:42 pm

The C7 listed as "VI" in the above list tonicizes the ii chord Fm (V of ii) for its moment and should be noted as such. vi in Eb is C minor. (in a harmony course you'd get busted for missing it)

The i vi ii V is probably less represented in jazz practice as a whole than the basic ii V (I). In bebop practice, popular and show tunes were reharmonized with a goal of obtaining more chromaticism, tonicizing many if not most of the expected target chords in the diatonic basic changes. The secondary dominant usage already makes it moreso; but a principle known as the flat 5 substitute (eg., an Fb7b5 chord as dominant to Eb, being equal to Bb7b5) maximizes that. Earlier periods [bebop is post-WWII] don't do that, later periods may eschew it such as in the cool school where static harmonies and modal or pseudo-modal lines were the thing, or obv. in more abstract musics.

Where's the ii-V-I progression in this jazz progression?