KVR Audio

golemus · Post by **golemus** » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:33 pm

What is the current state in audio latency or audio latency issues with android devices (phones and tablets).

The devices that have been sale for lets say last 2 years how good (or bad) they work with audio latency critical software like 1. synthesizer apps, 2. DJ-apps, 3. DAWs, 4. fast paced games, audio recorders, video conferencing software, MIDI controller applications, remote control applications, etc..etc..

How about graphical latency (touch latency) issues, have they been resolved?

By current state/resolved I don't mean that one device/model has this support but if I go to a shop and buy a middle price device, what is the likelyhood that it has audio latency or graphics/touch latency issues.

Benutzername · Post by **Benutzername** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:50 am

The rule is pretty simple: You get what you pay for. From my experience you'll have to invest similar money compared to iOS devices if you want decent audio performance and latency. Things like Cubasis work great with modern Android devices. I use a Huawei media pad to record and control a Yamaha MODX over USB with it and it just works.

The biggest downside on Android is the missing app interoperability. So there is nothing like Audiobus and no plugins and this means that the choice of audio apps is very limited. You are restricted to the built in sounds and effects of every app.

zvon · Post by **zvon** » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:09 am

I just got a Samsung A20 phone (year and a half old middle price device) and the latency is very acceptable. I tried it with Caustic, Audio Evolution Mobile Studio (now with a buit-in synth), Koala Sampler and a few other apps. No problems with the games I tried either.

As Benutzername wrote, there a lot less music apps for Android than iOS but the three I named above are very capable and they can import samples.

Paree · Post by **Paree** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:51 am

I have a 200 dollar android phone (Samsung Galaxy M31), the latency is almost similar to my iPhone SE (1st Gen) on ios 14

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:32 am

The whole audio ecosystem on Android is dead in the water, iOS is lightyears ahead and just works. Invest in an iPad, really.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:28 am

RPH wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:32 am The whole audio ecosystem on Android is dead in the water, iOS is lightyears ahead and just works. Invest in an iPad, really.

As much as I don't like Apple ecosystem, this is true. Apple cares about this use case, Google doesn't.

Benutzername · Post by **Benutzername** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm

But this thread is not about "How to buy an iPad" or "iOS is better than Android". There was no mention of Apple or iOS in the title or in the original post and no one asked about it. So Apple users please pass along. Nothing to see here. It's about Android and the current state of low latency audio.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:01 pm

Benutzername wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm But this thread is not about "How to buy an iPad" or "iOS is better than Android". There was no mention of Apple or iOS in the title or in the original post and no one asked about it. So Apple users please pass along. Nothing to see here. It's about Android and the current state of low latency audio.

if you're talking about "current state", it's inevitable that you'd be inviting comparisons to other platforms, iOS included. and it just so happens that Android's low latency audio ecosystem is in such an abysmal state that it isn't even a "state" - it's all custom solutions (e.g. Samsung's low latency audio subsystem) without any semblance of having any (de-facto or de-jure) standards or widely adopted solutions like AudioBus.

so basically, state of audio is about the same as Windows' state before the invention of ASIO and VST.

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:31 pm

There's Oboe (https://github.com/google/oboe), but don't know how well know that is among Android developers and how successful it is in achieving low latency.

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:18 pm

Benutzername wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm But this thread is not about "How to buy an iPad" or "iOS is better than Android". There was no mention of Apple or iOS in the title or in the original post and no one asked about it. So Apple users please pass along. Nothing to see here. It's about Android and the current state of low latency audio.

My first tablet was an Android tablet, and the latency was horrible.
Waited, complained and waited a few years, but nothing significant changed. Then I bought an iPad and was amazed by the superlow latency and good audio apps. I never looked back. Every time I see a thread about the current state of music on Android I nod my head, why struggle and try to work with unwilling Google and simple apps when there is a grown up eco system with awesome music apps / midi app / effects / etc?

For mobile music Apple is where it's at, no contest.
And I have an Android Phone plus Windows desktop computer.

mrjohs · Post by **mrjohs** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:41 am

The makers of the Superpowered SDK have made an app to measure round trip latency for iOS and Android. It basically plays a tone through the speakers and measures the playback of it via the microphone. It also shares the results to their website: https://superpowered.com/latency
This test is probably not 100% accurate, since it has to be done in a quiet room with the volume cranked up all the way. Some of the results on that list are likely incorrect. It seems that the iPhones in general have the best results, but there are some Android devices which have latencies down towards iPhone territory.
On the other hand, for the type of latency the OP is asking for (piano apps, etc), I think you would have to make a recording where you tap the screen to play a sound and try to hit the screen a little bit with your nail. That way you could measure the latency between hitting the screen (with your nail) and the sound from the phone playing. I know that is a very non-scientific test method, but with all the complexities going on in software/hardware to make that happen I don't know of any better way.
In general the iPhones are probably technically better, but these days probably all higher end Android devices are doing a decent enough job. The software is what it is, you'll have to browse through the Play Store to see if your needs are covered. As of now iOS probably has the best options while some of us are trying to improve that situation on the Android side

lucaspiano · Post by **lucaspiano** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:57 pm

Hi, there.

I have a question then... based on what you guys are investigating and accompanying lately, is this Android issues regarding audio latency a software or hardware problem? If this is a software issue that's okay. It'd be all about the Android - operating system itself. But if it's a hardware problem there's nothing we can do then otherwise waiting for a new hardware/phone for that, right?

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:35 pm

Blaster wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:31 pm There's Oboe (https://github.com/google/oboe), but don't know how well know that is among Android developers and how successful it is in achieving low latency.

I talked to the guys at Google who developed this framework, at the NAMM Show. From what I understood, Google does NOT care about developing a plugin format like VST/AUv3, which is vital for an audio ecosystem.

Imanque · Post by **Imanque** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:23 am

Since i read article above, i think i am still using ios device for the next year.
until now i still happy using ipad air 2 for record & mastering, while mixing using PC in SO4 Pro

Android audio latency issues (2020, situation update), and graphical latency