Tal J-8

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

For my money, I think Patrick should change the voice count on the default preset to 8 and declare this no longer an RC. That just seems entirely wrong since you can't get a 3-voice Jupiter-8. Not unless you need to get a bunch of chips replaced.

For future updates I'd consider:

1. Different color options with more contrast
2. Mouseover values and/or better (larger) graphics on the SC panel
3. Considering renaming the SC panel to something more akin to "Voice Offsets" or "Trimmers"

[Hink]

all off posts from this point on are gone, got it? Babysitting again, you know people I shouldn't have to say it in every thread, I dont get what the confusion is here...if you're just gonna talk about others go the beauty parlor or somewhere else, seriously ridiculous.

Because someone said in the vital thread that I should post it at the beginning of the thread because they might miss my post. (cant imagine anyone thinking I need to do that, until I read this thread).


STAY ON TOPIC, DO NOT ATTACK, DO NOT COMMENT ON OTHERS BEHAVIOR...JUST STAY ON TOPIC

[Reefius]

Just downloaded the latest build, am I missing some setting or is there no voice stealing? Say, you have set the number of voices to 2, you play two notes, keep them pressed, and when you try to play a third note, nothing happens and the first two keep sounding.

For voice stealing you need to set the synth to Poly 2 mode. It's in the manual (that nobody seems to read).

4. ASSIGN MODE
SOLO: Legato with only one voice.
UNISON: Plays different detuned voices together.
POLY I: Poly mode with a fix voice limit.
POLY II: Allows voice stealing.

[EvilDragon]

Since the trim pots on the SC panel are so small it is hard to see whether they are set to zero or slightly detuned. Mouse-over does not seem to work, either.

Yep I already reported that to Patrick, to be able to see the values of trimmers on hover or at least click without moving.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Just downloaded the latest build, am I missing some setting or is there no voice stealing? Say, you have set the number of voices to 2, you play two notes, keep them pressed, and when you try to play a third note, nothing happens and the first two keep sounding.

For voice stealing you need to set the synth to Poly 2 mode. It's in the manual (that nobody seems to read).

Ah so that's what Poly Mode 2 does! Been wondering about that for years. I always just assumed it was round-robin versus voice reallocation (probably from using RePro so much). Who needs two poly modes anyway! Totally guilty of never being curious enough about that feature to actualy read the manual to confirm.

[EvilDragon]

Going by RC Jupiter-8, Poly 1 behavior of J-8 is definitely weird/possibly incorrect. RC Jupiter-8 prioritizes new notes if you have it set to i.e. 4 voices, press a 4 note chord then play a fifth note. The difference between the two poly modes is that poly 1 always rotates voices, and poly 2 only switches to the next voice if you have more than one key held and so on. Best noticed with long amp env release times.

EDIT: Gosh, poly 2 mode is then wrong in J-8, too.

[zvenx]

Since the trim pots on the SC panel are so small it is hard to see whether they are set to zero or slightly detuned. Mouse-over does not seem to work, either.

Yep I already reported that to Patrick, to be able to see the values of trimmers on hover or at least click without moving.

YES!!!
rsp

[Sinisterbr]

Pardon my "noob-ness" on KVR, maybe you already went through this topic, but I do always ask myself - can we look at a plugin like this, not whether it mimics the original hardware as close as possible, but simply as a plugin with it's own sound and versatility, while being inspired by the analog legend.

We miss a lot of quality things in VSTs like this, if we look at it in relation only to the hardware they are based on. Sure it might beat the purpose of the emulation in the first place, but I just like the way TAL J-8 looks and sounds, because it is based on Jupiter 8, while not sounding necessary exactly like Jupiter 8. If you get my point.

Thanks.

I think that's what most people do. I've ever laid a finger on a Jupiter-8. I have no idea what they sound like other than YouTube videos or records, neither being the best way to judge a synth. I don't know which of the three is most accurate, I just like the TAL version the best.

On the other hand, here's my experience with the Roland System-8/Cloud version: never understood if it was a bad emulation or a really good emulation of a bad synth. I always suspected the former. I just never liked the sound of it. The filters were weak and nasally, the envelopes are not punchy...just did nothing for me. So if it was accurate, I would've hated the hardware despite it's status as the king of 80's polysynths. Then Arturia released V4 and suddenly I'm like, "'hey now...." then TAL releases theirs and I'm like, "oh ok, I get it now."

Sometimes things are classics for a reason. And if you can make a good emulation of that, you should have a pretty damn good softsynth. So yeah, I like the synth for what it is, don't care if it's a super accurate Jupiter, but if it is, that makes sense. I'm still probably more of a Sequential guy when it comes to the raw sound of a synth (that new Prophet will be mine), but suddenly I get the Jupiter appeal and I wasn't getting that from the one Roland emulation.

Ditto. I never played a real Jupiter-8. The only contact I had with it was through Youtube videos and soft synth emulations. But it never clicked. I always thought it was therefore just an average sounding machine. However, TAL J-8 sounds great and it made me, for the first time, consider I was wrong about the Jupiter-8 all along.
I'm not in the position to care if it is a perfect emulation or not, because I never tried the real one. But doesn't matter. J-8 in itself is a great instrument.

[Reefius]

I found a pdf of the original Jupiter 8 manual here:
http://dl.lojinx.com/analoghell/RolandJ ... Manual.pdf

The section about Assign modes is on page 12.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah indeed was just about to post a screenshot of that.

So Poly 1 mode in J-8 is actually correct and wrong in RC Jupiter-8. Poly 2 mode in J-8 is wrong though, and is correct in RC Jupiter-8.

EDIT: Confirmed Arturia also behaves like RC in Poly 2 mode, J-8 is incorrect.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Going by RC Jupiter-8, Poly 1 behavior of J-8 is definitely weird/possibly incorrect. RC Jupiter-8 prioritizes new notes if you have it set to i.e. 4 voices, press a 4 note chord then play a fifth note. The difference between the two poly modes is that poly 1 always rotates voices, and poly 2 only switches to the next voice if you have more than one key held and so on. Best noticed with long amp env release times.

EDIT: Gosh, poly 2 mode is then wrong in J-8, too.

Checked the original Jupiter-8 manual, sounds like J-8 got it right (page 12)...

http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/JP-8_OM.pdf

Way I'm reading that: in Poly-2 mode, the last played notes get the full release value and prior notes are cut instantaneously.

EDIT: beaten to the punch.

[zvenx]

For my money, I think Patrick should change the voice count on the default preset to 8 and declare this no longer an RC. That just seems entirely wrong since you can't get a 3-voice Jupiter-8. Not unless you need to get a bunch of chips replaced.

For future updates I'd consider:

1. Different color options with more contrast
2. Mouseover values and/or better (larger) graphics on the SC panel
3. Considering renaming the SC panel to something more akin to "Voice Offsets" or "Trimmers"

Surprisingly!!! (I kid I kid)
I agree with you on all counts.


Also for the voice stealing. it is behaving as it should.

Page 10 of the manual

ASSIGN MODE
SOLO: Legato with only one voice.
UNISON: Plays different detuned voices together.
POLY I: Poly mode with a fix voice limit.
POLY II: Allows voice stealing.

And from the Jupiter 8;s manual

Screen Shot 2020-12-19 at 3.11.07 PM.jpg

edit: aw others beat me to it.


rsp

[EvilDragon]

J-8 doesn't steal voices properly in Poly 2 mode. Easy test: amp release set to a few seconds, polyphony set to a low number (2 or 3), play n+1 staccato notes, compare with Arturia/RC.

[zvenx]

The comparison should be an actual Jupiter 8 no?
rsp

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

J-8 doesn't steal voices properly in Poly 2 mode. Easy test: amp release set to a few seconds, polyphony set to a low number (2 or 3), play n+1 staccato notes, compare with Arturia/RC.

I'm going to be completely honest, I don't know if there's a "properly" for any of these if you're talking about <=8 notes polyphony. As far as I know, the hardware didn't have a voice defeat feature. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. But I'm thinking if it didn't, the closest you could do is put it into split mode and end up with two 4 voice poly synths then test by playing 5 or more voices. So talking about the correct behavior when set to two or three voices just feels like kind of a moot point since the hardware didn't allow that behavior in the first place.

Note: according to the manual, the hardware did allow you to change the split point, and I don't believe the TAL version does (split fixed at C4). So let's add that to my future Feature Request list.