KVR Audio

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:08 pm

if mixers were like this there wouldn't be so many bad mixes

I have not seen a mixer like this in any Daw

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 pm

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:08 pmif mixers were like this there wouldn't be so many bad mixes

That's because your Output stage - that's typically missing - doesn't make much sense, because it precedes other gain control

I think Reason's mixer is pretty much spot on - it covers all of the bases except dual pan and provides flexible routing.

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:43 pm

antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 pm I think Reason's mixer is pretty much spot on - it covers all of the bases except dual pan and provides flexible routing.

I have Reason, that mixer is not the same as mine

I'm talking about having a peak meter as i show in the picture

the fader are not for Gain

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:54 pm

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:43 pmI'm talking about having a peak meter as i show in the picture

Your post says nothing about peak meter

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:43 pm the fader are not for Gain

Semantics.

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:03 pm

antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:54 pm Your post says nothing about peak meter
Semantics.

you didn't see those two big meters?

if you are using the fader for Gain, you are mixing bad

anyway, I hope developers come to this post

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:34 pm

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:03 pm
antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:54 pm Your post says nothing about peak meter
Semantics.
you didn't see those two big meters?

I saw meters, but meters themselves don't specify what unit they display, do they?
And you've only added those leading lines with "peak meter" label after my post...

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:03 pm if you are using the fader for Gain, you are mixing bad

No, I don't. Why would I want to reduce the signal coming out of my instruments / samples and going through all the inserts by say -3dB with some dedicated gain knob, rather than just pull down the channel fader by -3dB? The effect will be EXACTLY the same, since there's NOTHING between gain and fader in your picture. Only if I know I want to automate the level, I'll use some dedicated tool/utility plugin to avoid automating the fader, but that's very rare.

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:43 pm

antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:34 pm No, I don't. Why would I want to reduce the signal coming out of my instruments / samples and going through all the inserts by say -3dB with some dedicated gain knob, rather than just pull down the channel fader by -3dB?

you don't know how to mix,

if your input is saturated, and you just turn the fader down

you're turning down a saturated sound.

maybe in 10 years you will understand what I say

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:59 pm

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:43 pm
antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:34 pm No, I don't. Why would I want to reduce the signal coming out of my instruments / samples and going through all the inserts by say -3dB with some dedicated gain knob, rather than just pull down the channel fader by -3dB?
you don't know how to mix,

if your input is saturated, and you just turn the fader down

you're turning down a saturated sound.

maybe in 10 years you will understand what I say

What are you talking about? I never said I have any issue with gain at the top of the channel - that's very useful. I'm talking about the one that's before the fader. I've no idea what it's for and how moving it is any different from moving the fader.

Maybe in 10 years you'll learn reading with comprehension

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:09 pm

antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:59 pm What are you talking about? I never said I have any issue with gain at the top of the channel - that's very useful. I'm talking about the one that's before the fader.

ok let me explain,
the second meter is to make sure that the input and output of the effects are the same

when you add effects, they add decibels, those two meters are for gain stage

I can put two meters, but it is not the same as seeing it in the mixer, and not having to open meter plugin

the thing is that when those two meters are correct

then you start mixing with the fader, because you already have a clean sound

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:14 pm

electronic115 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:09 pm
antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:59 pm What are you talking about? I never said I have any issue with gain at the top of the channel - that's very useful. I'm talking about the one that's before the fader.
ok let me explain,
the second meter is to make sure that the input and output of the effects are the same

when you add effects, they add decibels, those two meters are for gain stage

I can put two meters, but it is not the same as seeing it in the mixer, and not having to open meter plugin

the thing is that when those two meters are correct

then you start mixing with the fader, because you already have a clean sound

But the 2 meters - in & out - don't have to be the same. It only matters that the signal between the devices in chain isn't too hot or too weak so that it can be processed at the sweetspots of the plugins.

And again, I don't mind the meters. I just don't see the practical value for the 2nd gain knob right before the fader.

pixel85 · Post by **pixel85** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:35 pm

Nah, all you need is a pair of ears. Two peak meters are unnecessary. Gain at the input and Fader at the output is all that you need.
If somebody can't make a proper mix with classic mixer strip then even 5 Gains and 10 Peak Meters will not help.
If you really must see peak meter before fader just set it to pre-fader (I'm pretty sure that the majority of DAWs can do that).

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:37 pm

should be automatic anyway

https://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/ab_lmjsfx.html

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Maybe put a peak meter and gain knob between all plugins, just to be sure

But seriously, the gain knob just before the fader is totally unnecessary. Just use the input/output gain knob/slider of every plugin to control the gain.

apoclypse · Post by **apoclypse** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:53 pm

Reefius wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:50 pm Maybe put a peak meter and gain knob between all plugins, just to be sure

But seriously, the gain knob just before the fader is totally unnecessary. Just use the input/output gain knob/slider of every plugin to control the gain.

Most DAWs also have utility plugins, just drop that after every other plugin and control the gain from there if you need to. Adding it to the mixer seems redundant imo. But like you pointed out here you should be gain staging from the plugins themselves to avoid going into the red, instead of blasting the signal then trying to turn it down with a utility or gain knob in the mixer.

electronic115 · Post by **electronic115** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:56 pm

Reefius wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:50 pm Maybe put a peak meter and gain knob between all plugins, just to be sure

But seriously, the gain knob just before the fader is totally unnecessary. Just use the input/output gain knob/slider of every plugin to control the gain.

what matters is the peak meter, from what I see most do not understand the Gain stage

not for nothing there are so many bad mixes

this is how a mixer should be