Looking to ditch Logic and Apple. Help!

[Halonmusic]

Not shure what DAW that can replace Logic. Never tried it so cant help you. Windows guy here. Does it have to be similar to Logic?

[pdxindy]

If making new CPUs was so easy how come there is only 2 companies in the game of x86.

I too really doubt the new CPUs will be any good and/or will cheaper than what apple is selling now.

The new Mac CPU's are really good. Apple however, is not new to making CPU's. They have been making the iPhone and iPad CPU's for years so not only do they have the know-how, but the supply chains to support the many many millions of iPhones they sell. It is not some new untested company making a new chip. The new Mac chips are the same fundamental architecture as what Apple has been making for years.

For laptops, the new Apple chips are fantastic. In one compiling test, the new M1 13" MBP took half the time to complete the task as the previous generation of 13" MBP. The old 13 MBP was down to 27% battery by the end of the test. The new M1 MBP was at 91% still. And no fan noise and it stayed cool.

U-he has an internal build of Diva in preparation for releasing Apple Silicon native versions of their plugins. A very preliminary test showed 36 simultaneous voices of Diva on a slightly older MBP vs 192 simultaneous voices on the new M1. I doubt real world use will end up that much better, but still very promising. 192 simultaneous Diva voices on a small laptop is impressive.

Anyway, do what you want. There is no right answer in all this stuff. It's just a tool. For sure, building a PC tower will be significantly cheaper than a new Mac Pro.

[machinesworking]

The current M1 in single core tests is only matched by the fastest chips out there right now, the current 8 core is pretty much a 4 core, plus 4 “helper” cores.

Where are those "tests"? Who performed them? What "fastest chips out there" was it compared to?

Everyone is in agreement that the 16” will be at least a 12 core, 8 performance cores and the 4 efficiency cores. Possibly 16 cores.

Who is "everyone"? You mean the fanboys?

I am not in agreement with anything. I'll wait and see. And will judge IF and WHEN it comes out, based on FACTS.

My god, you literally haven't looked at a single article on these chips have you? This is just sad. You stated nonsense as fact, that the M1 was just going to be overclocked for the next round, which I would bet 100% will not happen, then proceed to type you wait for FACTS??? :

They come in as at near the top in every test done for single core performance, this isn't on "apple fanboy" sites, this is every site that tests them against AMD and Intel chips. You have to be literally ignorant, have not looked at a single test done anywhere not to know this.

You're just proving in this thread how little you know about the subject you're talking about, over and over again.

[fmr]

This is definitely now a great PC V Mac thread for 2020, going out on a high I'd say.

Oh, and for added lols we got ourselves a new live one, "Yep, sure, the M1s seem to have delivered, but man those M2s will suck, typical Apple"

It shouldn't be, and it wouldn't be, if the fanboys wouldn't have jumped here to try to persuade the OP to get back in his intentions.

He wrote he decided to ditch Logic and Apple, and is seeking advice about what could replace Logic. What did the fanboys do? They jumped him heralding their "computer god" and "explaining" how wrong he his in that decision, how good the NEXT MAC will be, etc.

[machinesworking]

I've found a solution to my logic problems. If any one runs into something similar.

1. Don't load ANY plugins in the St Out channel. Create a St Out bus and send all your outputs through there. Then send this bus out to St Out.

I was loading Realphones and Sonarworks in this track.

2. Create an empty track and while playback select this track. Logic activates this track and throws a lot of CPU at it.

But this still does not allow you to play an instrument while playback....

Hey this is getting lost in the pointless debates, but I think some of your problems aren't due to the age of your computer or Logic.
So the way most DAWs work I've ever worked with is they throw a track on a thread or core. So if you've got a 12 core 3ghz machine for instance it's not going to spread the plug ins you use on a single track over all 12 cores. U-He is the exception to this, I'm sure there are a few others, but in most cases it's entirely possible to overload a single core while the other ones aren't being used for much at all. I wish all my DAWs did what Digital Performer does with the Effects Performance Window, it flatly shows you per plug in which ones are about to spike the CPU. I know without a doubt which plug ins in DP will be problematic stacked etc. and can manage the cores much more efficiently.

Another odd Logic thing, I've noticed an occasional mistake where Logic loads a single core with multiple tracks of plug ins, but all this takes to correct is stopping and starting the playback.

The latency introduced on the Master Channel by things like Realphones, Sonarworks, ARC etc. will screw up your ability to play soft instruments and definitely CPU. Mostly I don't use any of that stuff until I'm done with an arrangement, otherwise it's a nightmare. Everything on your master stereo out runs in real time, has little buffering and will be an issue latency wise.

Nothing really compares to Logics Samplers in terms of integration with the DAW, this is just sad really, IMO what Logic is like now should be how DAWs treated samplers since 15 years ago. The only things kind of comparable are in Bitwig and Live but both of those are less CPU efficient than Logic, so if you jump to Windows for better performance, you're going to lose most of that to Lives and to a degree Bitwigs real time performance approach. The samplers in them are integrated at almost the same level as the EXS (Sampler) is.

Logic Pro Help forums are a good resource for figuring out weird or frustrating Logic issues in regards to CPU handling which seems to be your main gripe here. https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/

[fmr]

They come in as at near the top in every test done for single core performance, this isn't on "apple fanboy" sites, this is every site that tests them against AMD and Intel chips. You have to be literally ignorant, have not looked at a single test done anywhere not to know this.

You keep talking BS... Yet you didn't present a single fact yet. I don't care about tests performed by Apple or sites connected to Apple, or between Macs. I don't care about current Macs.

You the guy who wrote:

The current M1 in single core tests is only matched by the fastest chips out there right now...

is calling me ignorant

You are just insulting, as does any fanboy.

[kovacs]

I don't care about tests performed by Apple or sites connected to Apple, or between Macs. I don't care about current Macs.

Here is an interesting review from Tom's Guide:
https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/macbook-pro-m1

You are just insulting, as does any fanboy.

It's still possible to choose whether or not to be an asshole.

[machinesworking]

I have a 12 cores (24 threads) running at 3.2 GHz that runs out of CPU quick with logic. I get lonely threads that pop logic really quick. Logic threading is really bad.

This is what I'm talking about above. I used Logic for about 8 years, I don't currently but I have Logic on a similar Mac Pro here. Logic is far from the worst DAW on my system, the threading is near the best. DP slightly beats it, but not by enough to count, and Reaper does a bit better. Logic like all of them has hiccups CPU wise, but at least here it's not anywhere near the worst. The worst are the "performance" DAWs like Live.

I think if you do switch to Windows knowing you're looking at performance, the clear choice is Reaper. At least here on OS X, Reaper beats out the others by at least 10% CPU wise, and by far allows the most control over how it's allocated. Even then, loading the master track with latency inducing plug ins should be done when you're finished with a composition and are in the mixing stage, and should be done with care.

My plan in the future is to use an Apple silicon laptop, with a Windows desktop. I think currently that's the best of both worlds. AMD are skunking Intel, and are poised to for quite a while, so if you do get a PC don't rule out AMD because of ten years ago etc. You can build a monster 16-24 core AMD machine for under 3K that will do you for a decade+.

[fmr]

I don't care about tests performed by Apple or sites connected to Apple, or between Macs. I don't care about current Macs.

Here is an interesting review from Tom's Guide:
https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/macbook-pro-m1

You are just insulting, as does any fanboy.

It's still possible to choose whether or not to be an asshole.

And here's another one... That so called "review" is filled with the usual Apple BS...

Comparing with Dell XPS 13 and Asus ZenBook 13... really? Were those "the best" he could find?

From now on I will not answer ANY other post about this. I'm not interested in talking to fanboys. I will stick strictly to the subject of the thread.

[Fabriciom]

This just killed me.

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-4577974

User of a brand new 2019 Mac Pro with 16 cores suffering from the single thread problem.

Insane....

[machinesworking]

Comparing with Dell XPS 13 and Asus ZenBook 13... really? Were those "the best" he could find?

Sure, it makes much more sense to compare a 13" laptop to a 64 Core Ryzen right? Even then, the single core performance is on par. The thermals are far far below anything in it's class, and the future looks bright.

I'm well aware I'm not convincing you of anything, your logic is familiar to anyone living in the USA with the current lame duck we have in office. You came to a conclusion a long time ago and you're not moving, I'm only commenting back because you're spreading misinformation.

Here's unrelated non partisan results for the AMD Ryzen 9 5950X and for the Apple M1 in single core scores. So a 16 core desktop VS an 8 core mobile chip.

https://www.cgdirector.com/cinebench-r2 ... d-results/

https://www.notebookcheck.net/These-App ... 380.0.html

This is completely randomly done, I spent no more time than it took to find a comparable benchmark score for a not arguably fast modern AMD CPU VS the M1.

In single core tests this is completely consistent, the M1 stack up against modern desktops in terms of speed in tasks that use a single core. What we will see next is how it stacks up against multi core CPUs when they come out with more than 4 performance core versions.

[machinesworking]

This just killed me.

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-4577974

User of a brand new 2019 Mac Pro with 16 cores suffering from the single thread problem.

Insane....

I'm hammering you on this, but this simply isn't about Logic, or the Macbook Pros. This is about track management. Even though Logic doesn't have an Effect Performance meter like DP10 does, you can still experiment with how this works and see the same results.

Any track record armed in any non "performance" oriented DAW is going to use more CPU than an unarmed tracks.

Any track with routing to an Aux is going to likely use the same CPU core for the plug ins on the track and on the Aux track.

Any DAWs main master stereo out is live all the time, any plug ins on that fader will be always sucking CPU, no buffering, and added latency.

In most DAWs open plug in windows make that track "live", sucking CPU.

None of this is a mystery, (it can seem like it though), take a half hour to experiment and you can spike a single CPU in any DAW on any OS with any Computer. Once you get used to this you simply aren't going to be seeing the sorts of single core loading you're seeing.

I'm again not much of a Logic user, but it has zero to do with this issue of single core loading you are pointing out, Logic really isn't any worse than any DAW that way. It gets very similar results to DP10, and Reaper on OS X. It skunks Live, and does a pretty good job against Bitwig for most plug ins.

[Fabriciom]

This just killed me.

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-4577974

User of a brand new 2019 Mac Pro with 16 cores suffering from the single thread problem.

Insane....

I'm hammering you on this, but this simply isn't about Logic, or the Macbook Pros. This is about track management. Even though Logic doesn't have an Effect Performance meter like DP10 does, you can still experiment with how this works and see the same results.

Any track record armed in any non "performance" oriented DAW is going to use more CPU than an unarmed tracks.

Any track with routing to an Aux is going to likely use the same CPU core for the plug ins on the track and on the Aux track.

Any DAWs main master stereo out is live all the time, any plug ins on that fader will be always sucking CPU, no buffering, and added latency.

In most DAWs open plug in windows make that track "live", sucking CPU.

None of this is a mystery, (it can seem like it though), take a half hour to experiment and you can spike a single CPU in any DAW on any OS with any Computer. Once you get used to this you simply aren't going to be seeing the sorts of single core loading you're seeing.

I'm again not much of a Logic user, but it has zero to do with this issue of single core loading you are pointing out, Logic really isn't any worse than any DAW that way. It gets very similar results to DP10, and Reaper on OS X. It skunks Live, and does a pretty good job against Bitwig for most plug ins.

If you read the posts in the thread you'll find that this did not happen to other people before.

And this did not happen to me before either.

[revvy]

"computer god"

"expensive paperweights"

[machinesworking]

This just killed me.

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-4577974

User of a brand new 2019 Mac Pro with 16 cores suffering from the single thread problem.

Insane....

I'm hammering you on this, but this simply isn't about Logic, or the Macbook Pros. This is about track management. Even though Logic doesn't have an Effect Performance meter like DP10 does, you can still experiment with how this works and see the same results.

Any track record armed in any non "performance" oriented DAW is going to use more CPU than an unarmed tracks.

Any track with routing to an Aux is going to likely use the same CPU core for the plug ins on the track and on the Aux track.

Any DAWs main master stereo out is live all the time, any plug ins on that fader will be always sucking CPU, no buffering, and added latency.

In most DAWs open plug in windows make that track "live", sucking CPU.

None of this is a mystery, (it can seem like it though), take a half hour to experiment and you can spike a single CPU in any DAW on any OS with any Computer. Once you get used to this you simply aren't going to be seeing the sorts of single core loading you're seeing.

I'm again not much of a Logic user, but it has zero to do with this issue of single core loading you are pointing out, Logic really isn't any worse than any DAW that way. It gets very similar results to DP10, and Reaper on OS X. It skunks Live, and does a pretty good job against Bitwig for most plug ins.

If you read the posts in the thread you'll find that this did not happen to other people before.

And this did not happen to me before either.

Again, this isn't a new phenomena. I've been messing around with DAWs since the 90's, I used Digital Performer when it was simply Performer in the 80's.

I've got the current version of Logic, a similar Mac Pro to you even. I have a 2009 Mac Pro I modded to 12 core, 3.33ghz. it's ancient, I'm able to run near the latest version Logic without it taxing only a single core and falling over.

So why am I able to do this on an old as the hills machine, and you have issues? Well, in this very thread you have stated you were running two very latency inducing audio reference plug ins on your master fader, and you couldn't run a virtual instrument after that because of a single core spiking the CPU. This is not something you would want to do in any DAW on any OS. Even with a new PC which would give you better single core performance and help out a little, this isn't a good idea. Basically I can also create a situation where a single core falls over, but I don't do that, because I know how cores are allocated in DAWs.

Here's the part I hope you understand, in the end there isn't a single DAW ever that doesn't have a bug or another that's frustrating. Smarter people than me come up with work arounds and continue to be productive. Some of the issues that people have are their own doing.

Your issues are not going to be solved by a new PC and a different DAW, not in the long run.