Looking to ditch Logic and Apple. Help!

[plexuss]

I wasnt able to read through the whole thread. Long story short: apple customer for 40 years; for music, started on Notator/atari in the 80s, then Logic/mac. Now I run 2010 macpro macOS 10.13 and, now, Reaper.

Logic became too burdensome in around X 10.4. Very inefficient and unreliable. I never use stock Logic plugins, only 3rd party, so switching was easier. I decided to go for Reaper. I've been using Repaer now for about a year. When I fire Logic up now I wonder how I worked with it all this time - it's pretty bad. Bloated, slow, unreliable, etc.

What helped me with Reaper was a theme that helps Reaper look like Logic. Here's a screenshot. If you go into the Reaper forum and search for the user blankfiles - he's the one who devs this these. Its an ongoing project.

My current plan is to stick with my 2010 macpro until I can get the current macpro at a much cheaper used price. maybe if/when they release a new one, I'll buy the current one as used. I never buy new apple products anymore - I really dislike apple as a company in general. I reject the trashcan - dumb design from a practical perspective. If its not possible to get a current macpro cheap, I may update my graphics card to Metal compatible so I can at least keep macOS going. When that all fails, switch to windoze - the Reaper switch is part of that plan.

Even if I dont switch to windoze, I will stick with Reaper - its far superior to Logic for me.

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[machinesworking]

I wasnt able to read through the whole thread. Long story short: apple customer for 40 years; for music, started on Notator/atari in the 80s, then Logic/mac. Now I run 2010 macpro macOS 10.13 and, now, Reaper.

Logic became too burdensome in around X 10.4. Very inefficient and unreliable. I never use stock Logic plugins, only 3rd party, so switching was easier. I decided to go for Reaper. I've been using Repaer now for about a year. When I fire Logic up now I wonder how I worked with it all this time - it's pretty bad. Bloated, slow, unreliable, etc.

What helped me with Reaper was a theme that helps Reaper look like Logic. Here's a screenshot. If you go into the Reaper forum and search for the user blankfiles - he's the one who devs this these. Its an ongoing project.

My current plan is to stick with my 2010 macpro until I can get the current macpro at a much cheaper used price. maybe if/when they release a new one, I'll buy the current one as used. I never buy new apple products anymore - I really dislike apple as a company in general. I reject the trashcan - dumb design from a practical perspective. If its not possible to get a current macpro cheap, I may update my graphics card to Metal compatible so I can at least keep macOS going. When that all fails, switch to windoze - the Reaper switch is part of that plan.

Even if I dont switch to windoze, I will stick with Reaper - its far superior to Logic for me.


Screen Shot 2020-12-29 at 12.49.22 PM.png

I can't argue with that, I switched to DP years ago, and recently spent a year diving into Reaper. There are at least a dozen ways Reaper is better, the rendering options are best in class, the way it deals with markers and regions (although with some caveats there), the wet/dry mix on every plug in, all amazing.

I think the one area where Logic is miles above most is the Arrange page though. I'm stuck on Logics inability to use more than 16 MIDI channels, so I'm not switching back to it by any means, but I have to admit I can't stand the way Reaper treats selecting items in the arrangement. The other two DAWs I work with for MPE support are Reaper and Bitwig, but neither has the fluid customizable Arrange page that Logic has. I just wish the selection of tracks wasn't wonky, but in the actual timeline it's top notch. Specifically the zoom functions. It should be mentioned that comping in Reaper is a PITA, Logic is much better there as well.

Also, I would not get the new Mac Pro, it's painfully overpriced because of Intel, who have had their ass handed to them by AMD, and it has no future on Mac OS. Going forward Apple Silicon Macs are without a doubt going to be amazing, and AMD for roughly half the price will get you an equivalent PC to the Mac Pro. You can put together a 16-24 core monster of an AMD PC for a little over half of what the bottom of the line 8 core Mac Pro costs.

[edit for spelling]

[machinesworking]

double trouble

[magog]

I think the one area where Logic is miles above most is the Arrange page though.

Would you mind please elaborating on this a bit? I am back using Logic again (after 20 years) after detours into Cubase and DP and (briefly) Reaper. There are a few arrange-page features that brought me back to Logic: folders, aliases, and the relationship of tracks and channels. I'm curious to learn what you think the advantages are.

[machinesworking]

I think the one area where Logic is miles above most is the Arrange page though.

Would you mind please elaborating on this a bit? I am back using Logic again (after 20 years) after detours into Cubase and DP and (briefly) Reaper. There are a few arrange-page features that brought me back to Logic: folders, aliases, and the relationship of tracks and channels. I'm curious to learn what you think the advantages are.

Zooming, this is by far the best of any DAW. So say you have a hundred tracks and want to edit one specifically, it's super fast if you have the zoom tool magnifying glass etc. set up as the secondary curser to zoom in and back out. I never bothered to use zoom settings in Logic, it's just not necessary. The linking of windows via the Link button, and the infinite loop feature by just hitting l on the keyboard. Aliases's, the ability to have the selected track temporary zoom larger, plus track stacks or folders that don't take up more real estate like in Reaper, and you have a choice between Reapers group style stacks and DP's simple folder management only stye. Plus in general Apple makes the whole GUI experience super smooth.

My caveat with Logic is MIDI input is limited to channel only. Logic does not differentiate MIDI controllers by port, so it's ultimately frustrating for me having a Roli Seaboard Block, Linnstrument, Akai MPK88, Beatstep Pro, and Push 2. If I use an MPE instrument and the Linnstrument for instance, I'm not able to just assign a few different sounds to different controllers and plunk away, I have to select different sounds in Logic.

[Fabriciom]

I wasnt able to read through the whole thread. Long story short: apple customer for 40 years; for music, started on Notator/atari in the 80s, then Logic/mac. Now I run 2010 macpro macOS 10.13 and, now, Reaper.

Logic became too burdensome in around X 10.4. Very inefficient and unreliable. I never use stock Logic plugins, only 3rd party, so switching was easier. I decided to go for Reaper. I've been using Repaer now for about a year. When I fire Logic up now I wonder how I worked with it all this time - it's pretty bad. Bloated, slow, unreliable, etc.

What helped me with Reaper was a theme that helps Reaper look like Logic. Here's a screenshot. If you go into the Reaper forum and search for the user blankfiles - he's the one who devs this these. Its an ongoing project.

My current plan is to stick with my 2010 macpro until I can get the current macpro at a much cheaper used price. maybe if/when they release a new one, I'll buy the current one as used. I never buy new apple products anymore - I really dislike apple as a company in general. I reject the trashcan - dumb design from a practical perspective. If its not possible to get a current macpro cheap, I may update my graphics card to Metal compatible so I can at least keep macOS going. When that all fails, switch to windoze - the Reaper switch is part of that plan.

Even if I dont switch to windoze, I will stick with Reaper - its far superior to Logic for me.


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Hi,

Thanks for your comments.

Do you mind sharing what type of sampling solution do you use?

Reaper + VST or Reaper + AU?

Thanks

[pdxindy]

My caveat with Logic is MIDI input is limited to channel only. Logic does not differentiate MIDI controllers by port, so it's ultimately frustrating for me having a Roli Seaboard Block, Linnstrument, Akai MPK88, Beatstep Pro, and Push 2. If I use an MPE instrument and the Linnstrument for instance, I'm not able to just assign a few different sounds to different controllers and plunk away, I have to select different sounds in Logic.

You can do that in the environment. You can setup multiple ports for your controllers. Not the most user friendly... hehe

[machinesworking]

My caveat with Logic is MIDI input is limited to channel only. Logic does not differentiate MIDI controllers by port, so it's ultimately frustrating for me having a Roli Seaboard Block, Linnstrument, Akai MPK88, Beatstep Pro, and Push 2. If I use an MPE instrument and the Linnstrument for instance, I'm not able to just assign a few different sounds to different controllers and plunk away, I have to select different sounds in Logic.

You can do that in the environment. You can setup multiple ports for your controllers. Not the most user friendly... hehe

Since you're a Bitwig user, you know how slightly disingenuous it is to say "you can do that". Sure, for a specific song or setup, but then you're stuck with a template, otherwise it just doesn't work. In fact in general it's not really much of a solution, the Click and Ports part of Logic gets horribly buggy when you attempt to assign a specific port to a specific track, it breaks control surface support and messes with the "all" setting in Logic. Compare this to Live, Bitwig, DP, Reaper, Cubase, and it's a shit show.

[pdxindy]

My caveat with Logic is MIDI input is limited to channel only. Logic does not differentiate MIDI controllers by port, so it's ultimately frustrating for me having a Roli Seaboard Block, Linnstrument, Akai MPK88, Beatstep Pro, and Push 2. If I use an MPE instrument and the Linnstrument for instance, I'm not able to just assign a few different sounds to different controllers and plunk away, I have to select different sounds in Logic.

You can do that in the environment. You can setup multiple ports for your controllers. Not the most user friendly... hehe

Since you're a Bitwig user, you know how slightly disingenuous it is to say "you can do that". Sure, for a specific song or setup, but then you're stuck with a template, otherwise it just doesn't work. In fact in general it's not really much of a solution, the Click and Ports part of Logic gets horribly buggy when you attempt to assign a specific port to a specific track, it breaks control surface support and messes with the "all" setting in Logic. Compare this to Live, Bitwig, DP, Reaper, Cubase, and it's a shit show.

Not disingenuous... just inexperienced. I never actually tried it, just watched a few videos. I assumed, though clunky, it was at least reliable. It just use Bitwig for that cause it is so easy

[magog]

I think the one area where Logic is miles above most is the Arrange page though.

Would you mind please elaborating on this a bit?
...

Zooming, this is by far the best of any DAW. So say you have a hundred tracks and want to edit one specifically, it's super fast if you have the zoom tool magnifying glass etc. set up as the secondary curser to zoom in and back out. I never bothered to use zoom settings in Logic, it's just not necessary. The linking of windows via the Link button, and the infinite loop feature by just hitting l on the keyboard. Aliases's, the ability to have the selected track temporary zoom larger, plus track stacks or folders that don't take up more real estate like in Reaper, and you have a choice between Reapers group style stacks and DP's simple folder management only stye. Plus in general Apple makes the whole GUI experience super smooth.

Thank you! I haven't played with the zoom tool much because I mostly use keyboard shortcuts for zooming, but will give it a go. I keep meaning to play around with window linking.

[Passing Bye]

Your issues are not going to be solved by a new PC and a different DAW, not in the long run.

Let him find the hard way, there's price to pay for being stubborn.

[machinesworking]

Thank you! I haven't played with the zoom tool much because I mostly use keyboard shortcuts for zooming, but will give it a go. I keep meaning to play around with window linking.

Try it out, set it up as the secondary curser tool, so the Command drag action zooms in and Click Command zooms out. It's butter. It used to be even better IMO, in earlier versions there wasn't a contextual menu and I had zoom assigned to the right click. I miss that, I'm curious if it's still possible to do that? probably breaks too many other things. Seriously it's the #1 thing I miss using other DAWs, being able to zoom horizontally and vertically without any nonsense.

[machinesworking]

Not disingenuous... just inexperienced. I never actually tried it, just watched a few videos. I assumed, though clunky, it was at least reliable. It just use Bitwig for that cause it is so easy

Sorry wasn't trying to call you a liar, I just love that word.

[pdxindy]

Not disingenuous... just inexperienced. I never actually tried it, just watched a few videos. I assumed, though clunky, it was at least reliable. It just use Bitwig for that cause it is so easy

Sorry wasn't trying to call you a liar, I just love that word.

No worries...

I really like the new Step Sequencer in Logic. It is so capable! Plus the Drum Machine Designer is almost perfect. Quick Sampler and Sampler are both really good too. Impressive work the Logic team is doing. It sure would be welcome if they addressed the issue with midi controllers in an update in the near future.

[machinesworking]

I really like the new Step Sequencer in Logic. It is so capable! Plus the Drum Machine Designer is almost perfect. Quick Sampler and Sampler are both really good too. Impressive work the Logic team is doing. It sure would be welcome if they addressed the issue with midi controllers in an update in the near future.

I think it's unlikely. The problem is Logic is immensely powerful MIDI wise, with that limitation in place. The environment even with all the advances allows for all kinds of crazy things, I had a CC and note step sequencer in the Environment back in the day. So the more complex a system is the harder it is to change it. SysEx and NRPN will probably never come to Bitwig and Live because they didn't see the need for systems they felt were about hardware that was a short lived thing etc.

Besides the Mac and AU only part which, it's Logics only real shortcoming. All Daws have an Achilles Heal of one kind or another, and if you're not a dork like me who gets hung up on them it's not deal breaker.