KVR Audio

hariossa · Post by **hariossa** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:20 am

So if someone uses Repro from u-he should stick to either Repro 1 or Repro 5? Another question: are emulations done in Bitwig's Grid or in Reaktor allowed?

Edit: and what about MPE? If someone uses Dexed, is it allowed or should it be constrained to the limitations of a real DX7?

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:01 am

hariossa wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:20 am So if someone uses Repro from u-he should stick to either Repro 1 or Repro 5? Another question: are emulations done in Bitwig's Grid or in Reaktor allowed?

Edit: and what about MPE? If someone uses Dexed, is it allowed or should it be constrained to the limitations of a real DX7?

I think with MPE you could probably at least come close by using different MIDI CC messages, no? Which to me would be okay, just a more convenient way to accomplish the same thing? I guess per-note tuning or something might be stretching it a little, but to me that's just keeping up with technology that might be required for things like microtuning.

As for using Repro 1 vs 5, in similar situations in the past it has usually been: pick one and stick to it.

The Grid question is a really good one... let me first restate my opinion that I believe software picked should be nearly exact recreations of hardware. Now, if a Grid patch is put together which accurately models the entire signal flow a of a specific piece of hardware gear, I believe it should be allowed, but I believe it would be a little bit of effort to truly piece together a specific piece of gear. And there will obviously be limitations as to what the Grid can do, so it would be important to see this grid patch really does an accurate emulation...

J.Ruegg · Post by **J.Ruegg** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:17 am

I have similar questions as Z.
For example Synth1 was modelled around the Nord2, but then it started to implement things that weren't originally in the Nord2 design.
Should it be allowed?

So, should the software emulate only a specific piece of hardware and be as most faithful as possible? because if not, I can think of some synths that claim to be analog emulations of some sorts (Saurus, Diva, even Reveal sound Spire). Which start to go away from the original purpose of this month.

I like this idea, and if I had a hardware synth I would absolutely use it this month, but as I don't have any, I'm looking for which software synths I could use... And I still haven't got a clear list of candidates

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:25 am

What if we clarified the rules with something like: the chosen synth must state on the website that it is a software version / implementation / recreation of a specific piece of hardware? Is that more or less what the original intent of the challenge was?

photonic · Post by **photonic** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:33 am

Great Idea this month!

But as we can already see, it will cause a lot of questions. Here are mine. Nearly every emulation has more possibilities than the original hardware. So just as an example:

1. Are we allowed to use velocity or other modulations, even if the the original does not have it (which is the fact in many cases)?
2. Many emulations do have more FX like delay and reverb than the original. As per rule, we are not allowed to use FX-emulations which are not modeled after an original hardware. Can we use those FX anyhow?

If not, it will be very difficult to find out, what the original hardware was capable and what EXACTLY the difference is between emulation and hardware.

J.Ruegg · Post by **J.Ruegg** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:37 am

photonic wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:33 am
2. Many emulations do have more FX like delay and reverb than the original. As per rule, we are not allowed to use FX-emulations which are not modeled after an original hardware. Can we use those FX anyhow?

I think it's stated that only commercial effects used should be hardware emulations.

So as I understand it, if it's a free effect and within the rules it's ok (it doesn't has to be an analog emulation)

photonic · Post by **photonic** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:30 am

J.Ruegg wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:37 am
photonic wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:33 am
2. Many emulations do have more FX like delay and reverb than the original. As per rule, we are not allowed to use FX-emulations which are not modeled after an original hardware. Can we use those FX anyhow?
I think it's stated that only commercial effects used should be hardware emulations.

So as I understand it, if it's a free effect and within the rules it's ok (it doesn't has to be an analog emulation)

OK, but if the emulation is not freeware, the FX is automatically commercial!

briefcasemanx · Post by **briefcasemanx** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:09 am

z.prime wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:25 am What if we clarified the rules with something like: the chosen synth must state on the website that it is a software version / implementation / recreation of a specific piece of hardware? Is that more or less what the original intent of the challenge was?

This sounds good to me. It gets a little murky if the developer has to call out the exact emulation by name, as some seem to avoid this for potential legal reasons.

vcv and voltage modular shouldnt be allowed unless it's only using 1 piece of hardware (like the cherry Audio 2600 clone, or juno 60 clone, and no other modules). Mixing and matching 30 different hardware emulation modules isn't really different than using a bunch of different emulations of different synths.

It should be about picking your single favorite hardware synth color, or picking the most versatile single synth in your arsenal that's not a rompler.

The fun is being stuck with limitations.

reusenoise · Post by **reusenoise** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:42 am

Assuming the use of a real hardware synth, like Mini Moog, how to manage a full track, at least a simple drum set like kick, snare, hat, a bass a lead and maybe some pads? People should record separate tracks for each instrument, but it's different to freeze a track like softsynth, so at least multi track audio should be allowed

3lu5iv3 · Post by **3lu5iv3** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:06 am

Here are some virtual emulations of real hardware gear if you're interested.

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2012/0 ... u-plugins/

Impedance Music · Post by **Impedance Music** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:19 am

I´ve also some questions:

1. Is the Roland D-50 (hardware) allowed? I mean - it uses attack samples and Pulse/Saw Waves for Soundcreation
2. I´ve some Impulse Responses from free sources and some paid ones from STN which are from some hardware devices like AMS
RMX16 or Lexicon PCM70 / 224 etc... Do they count as emulations? My best guess would be no, because they are basically
samples and not emulations
3. Speaking of Reverb: How is it looking with the Hardware Presets in Waves H-Reverb, do those count as Emulation?
4. What about the Roland System-8 (also hardware)? Can we only use One Plugout, for example the Jupiter-8, or can we use all
three, which are currently loaded into the machine (in my case, Jupiter-8, Juno-106 and JX3P)?

SeBaer · Post by **SeBaer** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:05 am

3lu5iv3 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:06 am Here are some virtual emulations of real hardware gear if you're interested.

https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2012/0 ... u-plugins/

And I guess, anything from Full Bucket also works... I'm considering Cherry Audio MG-1, which is still free at the moment. But first I need to make some sound tests.

The B00 · Post by **The B00** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:56 am

@SeBaer -"I'm considering Cherry Audio MG-1, which is still free at the moment. But first I need to make some sound tests."

You read my mind - I was thinking this would be a good excuse to make use of this emulation.
Cherry have updated it quite a lot from the hardware version though, so I'd like to know if that is within the spirit and scope of the rules.

hariossa · Post by **hariossa** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:50 pm

Impedance Music wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:19 am I´ve also some questions:

1. Is the Roland D-50 (hardware) allowed? I mean - it uses attack samples and Pulse/Saw Waves for Soundcreation
4. What about the Roland System-8 (also hardware)? Can we only use One Plugout, for example the Jupiter-8, or can we use all
three, which are currently loaded into the machine (in my case, Jupiter-8, Juno-106 and JX3P)?

I think the D-50 is considered a ROMpler so it would be a no there.
The rules states that an emulation inside a workstation is allowed if you stick to only one emulation model so any of the Plugouts will do.

Hard3eat · Post by **Hard3eat** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:06 pm

There's a lot of things that are not clear in this one...
I already started making something with Diva so if its not goin to be allowed after all thats gonna suck.
Tho I agree that it doesn't really emulate a specific synth.. Plus it has so many different synth modes, filters, envlopes, presets and what not that its waay easier for someone to create a full on track with it..

Maybe if you guys want to use hardware and software this month than just split it into best 'hw' track of the month and best 'sw' track of the month

One Synth Challenge #143: Any Hardware or Emulation (Taron Wins!)