Why did you leave Studio One?

[antic604]

Reason got the worst sequencer I ever came across with and is far to cumbersome with all it´s routings...

I hear this all the time yet I still have no idea what it really means? Other than missing folders to group all the FX & channel automation tracks that pop up for every instrument, I don't really see what's wrong with it? You can do everything that you can with MIDI & audio clips on the timeline that you can in any other DAW, more in fact than some. Automation clips are brilliant. Blocks are super helpful when used properly. Patterns are just awesome. Navigating around the timeline with a trackpad is super quick and intitive, unlike Bitwig for example. Multi-clip editing is leagues better than in Live 10, for example. It's easy to bounce stuff in place or resample whole segments of arrangement, etc. I really like how easy it is to mute individual automation lanes, etc.

What's actually wrong with it?

[xbitz]

In Audio Bend you can slice the loop at transients, then select all events, quantize them and set them to follow tempo (not timestretch). This way the slices - drum hits - will always be in time but never time-stretched (I'm changing tempo when cursor goes off screen):

I know how this works in S1 but this is what I meant with oldschool...
Abletons Beat mode is far quicker and can be used more creative...

I actually find Reason and Studio One to be the closest, with a hypothetical hybrid of the two being the ideal we're looking for. Reason has all the modular stuff that Bitwig or Live do, but also has proper comping, exceptionally good time-stretching, good MIDI tools, pitch correction; Studio One compared to say Cubase has really powerful on-channel tools for splitting the signal to make parallel, mid/side or multi-band processing and what I only misses is some native modulation system.

Meh,... Reason got the worst sequencer I ever came across with and is far to cumbersome with all it´s routings...
I talked about the BEST of both worlds...

seems Reaper+Voltage also a working combo if you looking for a FrankenDaw

Voltage as VST plugin-chainer can't be used in other DAW as I've tried it definitely needs the anticipative fx/multicore processing of Reaper, clip-launcher, tracker also working as I've played with them, PDC seems good, time-stretching: Reaper has the highest points beside DP https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html

hopefully, I don't have to configure Reaper again in my life again ...

[antic604]

seems Reaper+Voltage also a working combo if you looking for a FrankenDaw

Just Reaper alone is a definition of Frankenstein DAW

[xbitz]

^^^ yepp, only the mentioned "modular stuff" is missing from it totally

ps. and one more it hasn't got retrospective recording, just script-based workarounds https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2095341 it can be important

but the MIDI (recording) latency is much lower than Cubase/Bitwig/AL/Reason has as I've tried this is the first DAW where it isn't an annoying one

ps2. and the mono plugin versions has to be routed manually ... https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php ... ost2260475

[Trancit]

...Or maybe I do and we simply have different interests.

Oh, come on...make an effort and confess that you don´t know it...

Just kidding... sorry but I couldn´t resist...

[Trancit]

...seems Reaper+Voltage also a working combo if you looking for a FrankenDaw

Voltage as VST plugin-chainer can't be used in other DAW as I've tried it definitely needs the anticipative fx/multicore processing of Reaper, clip-launcher, tracker also working as I've played with them, PDC seems good, time-stretching: Reaper has the highest points beside DP https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html

hopefully, I don't have to configure Reaper again in my life again ...

No sorry... that would be too complicated for my old brain...

And Reaper itself is just too script based, halfbaken, workaround heavy...

[Trancit]

I hear this all the time yet I still have no idea what it really means? Other than missing folders to group all the FX & channel automation tracks that pop up for every instrument, I don't really see what's wrong with it? You can do everything that you can with MIDI & audio clips on the timeline that you can in any other DAW, more in fact than some. Automation clips are brilliant. Blocks are super helpful when used properly. Patterns are just awesome. Navigating around the timeline with a trackpad is super quick and intitive, unlike Bitwig for example. Multi-clip editing is leagues better than in Live 10, for example. It's easy to bounce stuff in place or resample whole segments of arrangement, etc. I really like how easy it is to mute individual automation lanes, etc.

What's actually wrong with it?

For me the midi editor is too clunky, too much wasted space, too much clicking for opening the tool bar (don´t know anymore how it is called) for the simplest stuff and with grabbing, moving or painting stuff it just feels cumbersome...
The sequencer itself looks like an atari game from 1990 and there is simply too much stuff lacking...
The navigation with a track pad might be alright but with a mouse I find it horrible.

When I speak about a FrankenDAW with the best features of both worlds for me it would look like the Midi Editor from FL Studio, the efficiency, action system and adjustability of Reaper, the Chord track from Studio 1 or Cubase with the pattern ability of Waveform paired with the preset automation curves of Ableton together with a good selection mix of timestretch options from Bitwig and Ableton etc...etc...
Picking the best parts of the DAWs and combine them...will never happen I know, but I keep my hopes high...

Studio One is for me already the best in this regard but lacking in many details...perhaps one day...

[antic604]

Thanks for taking the time to write about sequencer. I don't agree with some of that, but it's fairly subjective and - as you say below - no DAW does it perfectly anyway

When I speak about a FrankenDAW with the best features of both worlds for me it would look like the Midi Editor from FL Studio, the efficiency, action system and adjustability of Reaper, the Chord track from Studio 1 or Cubase with the pattern ability of Waveform paired with the preset automation curves of Ableton together with a good selection mix of timestretch options from Bitwig and Ableton etc...etc...
Picking the best parts of the DAWs and combine them...will never happen I know, but I keep my hopes high...

Isn't that what Behringer was planning? I hope they're working on it!

[xbitz]

...And Reaper itself is just too script based, halfbaken, workaround heavy...

script handling is centralized

installing is mainly a double-clicking and a short key assignment, piano roll of it can be configured to able to work same as FL one, don't want to force it just saying these parts are working nicely

tried to install the minimum amount of scripts less than 5 maybe so they're optional ones, IMO only the https://www.sws-extension.org/ one is the must-have one, this one adds the mouse middle-click zooming feature to Reaper arrangement (and many more https://www.sws-extension.org/#features )

[oneway]

The question is still "why?" It seems like an old fashioned choice, like you are only doing it because that's what you've always done.

I'm doing it because in that situation it was a faster way to achieve results that fit the song. I've used virtual drums and sample arrangement equally my entire career (they've been around for a long time, after all). It's about what works best with a given starting point.

[xbitz]

...And Reaper itself is just too script based, halfbaken, workaround heavy...

script handling is centralized

installing is mainly a double-clicking and a short key assignment, piano roll of it can be configured to able to work same as FL one, don't want to force it just saying these parts are working nicely

tried to install the minimum amount of scripts less than 5 maybe so they're optional ones, IMO only the https://www.sws-extension.org/ one is the must-have one, this one adds the mouse middle-click zooming feature to Reaper arrangement (and many more https://www.sws-extension.org/#features )

upped the workflow

definitely has the FrankendDAW feeling but working and fun

[Trancit]

script handling is centralized

installing is mainly a double-clicking and a short key assignment, piano roll of it can be configured to able to work same as FL one, don't want to force it just saying these parts are working nicely

tried to install the minimum amount of scripts less than 5 maybe so they're optional ones, IMO only the https://www.sws-extension.org/ one is the must-have one, this one adds the mouse middle-click zooming feature to Reaper arrangement (and many more https://www.sws-extension.org/#features )

I know about and use reapack that isn´t the problem...for me the problem with scripts is that they are mostly ugly as hell if they come with some UI and it´s immediately noticeable that they are "not part of the programm" if this makes sense...

Take the approach for a chord track alone...I don´t remember the script name but this is simply unuseable... I cannot imagine something more ugly and more overcomplicated than this...
I think I'd rather win the Nobel Prize in quantum physics than make this thing work... and sadly at this point it just starts...

Don´t get me wrong, I really appreciate the effort many script creators offer for free but it´s clearly noticeable they are nerds making stuff for nerds... I don´t belong to this group of intelligent people and I cannot follow their way of thinking...

For me a successful programmer is not only a person with great ideas and the knowlegde to make them work but in particular to make this accessable to a broad range of different people with attractive interface and controls which make sense to "normal" people...
If you look at the available scripts of Reaper it´s getting clear pretty fast those "scripters" don´t belong to the group of "successful programmers"...

[BONES]

I'm doing it because in that situation it was a faster way to achieve results that fit the song. I've used virtual drums and sample arrangement equally my entire career (they've been around for a long time, after all). It's about what works best with a given starting point.

Fair enough, it simply surprised me that it's still a thing. Time to get back on-topic, I think.

[xbitz]

...
Take the approach for a chord track alone...I don´t remember the script name but this is simply unuseable... I cannot imagine something more ugly and more overcomplicated than this...
I think I'd rather win the Nobel Prize in quantum physics than make this thing work... and sadly at this point it just starts...

I know chord track was only an example, but who uses chord track anyway ... everybody learns one scale and transposes it

knowing one scale and the patterns on it
1-3-5 basic triads
5-1-3 triads in the second inversion
3-5-1 triads in the first inversion
7-2-5 dominant triads
2-5-1 sus2
etc. is more than enough in EDM (which hardly ever uses extended chord types or even seventh ones ) we have plugins to do the rest

white keys have to be mapped to black ones and the result can be transposed to anywhere, done ... there is a mapper in Nora package
it works in any DAW,

just watching the master course of

and he does the same

ps. ok, Picardy Third or cadence also needed in EDM too but it can be added manually at the end

[EnGee]

I'm on the way to leave S1. Not because it's bad but because Cubase is better for me, especially hardware integration. Overall, I like Cubase more

Both are very similar and I can feel at home with either one. I need to choose one of them as I don't find a point in having them the two. Anyway, I'm not selling S1 yet, but I might soon when I need some cash!