PC Specs/Soundcards

[ghostwhistler]

When it comes to plugins/vsts/DAWs, what sound specs should I look for in a PC? I have an i5 with an "AMD high def audio device", but i've no idea what that means. I bought it refurbished so it could well be a custom high end soundcard, or just the bog standard factor audio component.

Thanks

[DJ Warmonger]

AMD high def audio device

This is completely irrelevant and useless.

For starters, you will need an external audio interface connected via USB:
https://www.thomann.de/pl/interfejsy_au ... fc252635a3

Focusrite Scarlett seems to be a very popular model. The more awesome, the more expensive they get.

[ghostwhistler]

I have one, but why are they necessary for using plug ins and the like, that's what I'm currently doing. I thought musical work would require a sound card or something. I don't really understand pc's I'm afraid (which is rather obvious I imagine).

[BertKoor]

Don't buy anything, unless you are sure you solve a real problem with a purchase.

Main things a proper audio interface should do better than a built-in chip:
* low latency (delay between you pressing a key and you hearing the sound)
* quality (noise floor, flat spectrum)
* inputs to record voice, guitars, etc
* midi connections for a keyboard or drum pads

The built-in audio chip could work well for you the coming year or so, especially if you do not have a midi keyboard etc.

[fmr]

Don't buy anything, unless you are sure you solve a real problem with a purchase.

Main things a proper audio interface should do better than a built-in chip:
* low latency (delay between you pressing a key and you hearing the sound)
* quality (noise floor, flat spectrum)
* inputs to record voice, guitars, etc
* midi connections for a keyboard or drum pads

The built-in audio chip could work well for you the coming year or so, especially if you do not have a midi keyboard etc.

^^^ THIS ^^^ Just make sure uoi use some low latency audio driver (usually the WDM drivers may reach low latencies now, but not all DAWs support them). If in doubt, just download a trial version of Cubase. It installs a Generic Low Latency ASIO driver which can be used with any application.

[ghostwhistler]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not an expert by any means and am thinking of buying a new laptop anyway. What i have (can't remember if I mentioned it) is: i5-3210m 2.5ghtz processor, 8gb RAM 1tb storage. This seems to work pretty well but I m thinking of upgrading. However I'm unclear on processor speeds. I was looking at an i5-10210u which comes in an Acer Travelmate P6. Now the latter has a slower speed, it seems, @1.6 gthz, but it's a much newer model. What am I missing here, or is that actually a slower device? I don't see the point in buying something slower.

[whyterabbyt]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not an expert by any means and am thinking of buying a new laptop anyway. What i have (can't remember if I mentioned it) is: i5-3210m 2.5ghtz processor, 8gb RAM 1tb storage. This seems to work pretty well but I m thinking of upgrading. However I'm unclear on processor speeds. I was looking at an i5-10210u which comes in an Acer Travelmate P6. Now the latter has a slower speed, it seems, @1.6 gthz, but it's a much newer model. What am I missing here, or is that actually a slower device? I don't see the point in buying something slower.

The 'speed' you're talking about is clock speed. If you take a single imaginary CPU and increase its clock speed, it will do more processing in the same time.
But clock speed isnt the only thing that determines how much processing CPUs do. The other main thing that's very important is how long it takes to execute the individual processing steps. Having a faster clock may not be the advantage it seems if the steps themselves are slower to carry out.

In other words if you have two people filling bags, and one can fill ten bags a minute and the other one can fill 15 bags a minute, is that enough to tell you which one puts most stuff in the bags over an hour?
No. Because you dont know how much stuff either of them puts in a given bag.

If you compare that first imaginary CPU to a second CPU which executes its instructions in fewer clock cycles, but runs at a lower clock speed, it can still do more work than a less efficient CPU running on a faster clock.

In your case, also note that the Travelmate CPU has 4 real cores (8 virtual) while the older only has 2(4). That doesnt quite double the amount of work it can do it parallel (because of overheads) but it is a big advantage.

You can find websites which do processor comparisons just by googling 'model1 vs model2' and this one indicates the Travelmate could be 60% or more faster in some benchmarks:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 9vsm819403

It also uses about 45% of the power, btw. That's another 'thing' targetted for the improvement of laptop CPU designs.

[ghostwhistler]

Thanks, that helps.

Without asking you to review every laptop on the market, with respect to use for music, what tips would you give in looking for a new one without wanting to spend more than I have to.

[thecontrolcentre]

Buy something with plenty of RAM and a fast quad core processor. I'd also suggest a 17" screen over a smaller one for audio work. I would avoid Acer machines as the last one I had literally fell to bits. I've had good experience with HP and my current 3XS custom laptop (except for the screen failing after 4 years use).

[jackoo]

Just some thoughts:
I've recently bought a relatively cheap keyboard for use with my laptop. It's a yamaha PSR-E463. While some will say that's heresy, there is some good reason for me getting that.
Unlike the flagships of Yamaha, this cheap keyboard has a low latency built-in audio interface and internal speakers.

Now the really nice thing is that the built-in in audio interface is low latency. It has dedicated ASIO drivers developed by Steinberg which work very well. I get 12ms latency which is ok on the go. Steinberg should know to code drivers, they've invented ASIO.

So it's cool that I don't need to carry an amp /DAC + speakers and a separate audio interface. I just use one USB 2.0 cable, a laptop PC and that 61 key keyboard - and that's all (of course, if you're not recording external audio).

For a laptop, I brought a not so expensive Acer Aspire 5. 10th gen i5-1035g1, 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD drive. No dedicated GPU (I think this helps achieve better DPC latency than having an extra Nvidia driver).

Now there are a lot of optimizations you can make for your windows 10 (especially regarding your power options), which can bring down this DPC / interrupts latency. This can be measured with an utility called LatencyMon. After some tweaks I'm getting something really decent like 50us DPC latency with peaks of about 100-120us. I've heard about laptops much more expensive with much more latency issues.
The lower this latency the more you can decrease your ASIO buffer without getting audio artifacts or dropouts. Smaller ASIO buffer means lower audio latency.

So this setup works nice for me. It doesn't handle my most complex projects, but I'd say it's quite decent.

[ghostwhistler]

Just some thoughts:
I've recently bought a relatively cheap keyboard for use with my laptop. It's a yamaha PSR-E463. While some will say that's heresy, there is some good reason for me getting that.
Unlike the flagships of Yamaha, this cheap keyboard has a low latency built-in audio interface and internal speakers.

Now the really nice thing is that the built-in in audio interface is low latency. It has dedicated ASIO drivers developed by Steinberg which work very well. I get 12ms latency which is ok on the go. Steinberg should know to code drivers, they've invented ASIO.

So it's cool that I don't need to carry an amp /DAC + speakers and a separate audio interface. I just use one USB 2.0 cable, a laptop PC and that 61 key keyboard - and that's all (of course, if you're not recording external audio).

For a laptop, I brought a not so expensive Acer Aspire 5. 10th gen i5-1035g1, 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD drive. No dedicated GPU (I think this helps achieve better DPC latency than having an extra Nvidia driver).

Now there are a lot of optimizations you can make for your windows 10 (especially regarding your power options), which can bring down this DPC / interrupts latency. This can be measured with an utility called LatencyMon. After some tweaks I'm getting something really decent like 50us DPC latency with peaks of about 100-120us. I've heard about laptops much more expensive with much more latency issues.
The lower this latency the more you can decrease your ASIO buffer without getting audio artifacts or dropouts. Smaller ASIO buffer means lower audio latency.

So this setup works nice for me. It doesn't handle my most complex projects, but I'd say it's quite decent.

Thanks. If you can share or link to those optimizations I'd be very grateful, Win10 is my arch enemy. I hate the bloody thing! Still that's my problem and I'll get over it.

[jackoo]

Oh, well that's like opening a can of worms. I don't like win10 either (but apart from the bloat and telemetry nightmare, the kernel and the core of the OS is actually decent).
What I hate most is when, suddenly, out of the blue, my computer is doing something that I didn't ask. Like randomly downloading something in the background, or some random m1cr0$oft service eating away CPU, or just hearing my fans starting to spin even when I'm not doing anything.

I'd start with the power options (min and max cpu freq at 100%), disable USB power management, disable un-needed services, try to take control of the updates, monitor which drivers cause latency and perhaps change the affinity of certain interrupts to other cores, registry edits, disabling scheduled tasks...
I spent 3 weeks to get it working the way I want, after I bought the laptop and did a clean install. And only after that installing the audio DAW + installing and activating the plugins.

Some tweaks are indeed severe and you're getting diminishing returns, in the end. But you don't have to go that deep...

Some starting points (depends how deep you want to go... ):

Code: Select all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNlVUyaW0U&list=PLykpkrQ1xVu1jTFCju1cmY9UAHw99aGWW&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwL37kIVcjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYxw3FYoNk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E6OT_QcHaU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ziE5Am0pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTL0i5XzS7k

Interesting thread:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=503585

[clipnotic]

When it comes to plugins/vsts/DAWs, what sound specs should I look for in a PC? I have an i5 with an "AMD high def audio device", but i've no idea what that means. I bought it refurbished so it could well be a custom high end soundcard, or just the bog standard factor audio component.

Thanks

I started many years ago with a "big hardware studio" (80.000 Euro), then I worked with hardware and software together and with a RME soundcard and Focal System (20.000 Euro). Meanwhile I'm working with a middle class gaming laptop with free ASIO4all drivers and a really good, but over 20 years old, Hifi system and my tracks are sounding better than before!

EDIT:
The most important feature, if you producing music; are your ears, not the equipment!

[ghostwhistler]

When it comes to plugins/vsts/DAWs, what sound specs should I look for in a PC? I have an i5 with an "AMD high def audio device", but i've no idea what that means. I bought it refurbished so it could well be a custom high end soundcard, or just the bog standard factor audio component.

Thanks

I started many years ago with a "big hardware studio" (80.000 Euro), then I worked with hardware and software together and with a RME soundcard and Focal System (20.000 Euro). Meanwhile I'm working with a middle class gaming laptop with free ASIO4all drivers and a really good, but over 20 years old, Hifi system and my tracks are sounding better than before!

EDIT:
The most important feature, if you producing music; are your ears, not the equipment!

I agree!

I'd be interested in hearing the specs of your machine