Spire Synthesizer

[recursive one]

Why would you "need wavetables"? Surely that's just a choice, like so many others. I cannot think of a single occasion when I have thought "I need wavetables for this". I have no idea what a wavetable can do that I can't do with a bit of cross-mod (or a lot).

Wavetables are just a convenient way to add more sonic variety at the oscillator level. You can source them from everywhere, some are made with FM, resynthesis, a mathematical function, recording real instruments, extracting sonic information from image, etc. Ofc, not all of that will provide musically useful results, or make much difference at all, but if a synth comes with wavetables that have been made by someone who actually understands how to make useful stuff of them, this wastly extends the range of sounds that can be made with the synth with just a few knobs.

I can't say I've ever noticed any "gimmicky" sounds in any of the Psytrance I've heard, either.

There are lots of subgenres and varieties in psy, I don't know what exactly you listened to.



https://soundcloud.com/rumble-pack/rumb ... -wraped-up



Try making all these sounds with a basic subtractive synth and a bit of cross-mod

[chk071]

Why would you "need wavetables"? Surely that's just a choice, like so many others. I cannot think of a single occasion when I have thought "I need wavetables for this". I have no idea what a wavetable can do that I can't do with a bit of cross-mod (or a lot).

As recursive one wrote, it's about sonic variety, but, it's also about an easy way to add movement to the sound, when you modulate the wavetable position.

Whether you want or "need" that in your sound is subjective/dependant on the music. For some pads, it's great, and pretty essential for me.

The quality of the included wavetables is pretty different though. The ones in the Waldorf synths and the Virus are great. The ones in Dune or Synthmaster One... not so. Good thing the Virus ones are freely available in the Serum format.

[excuse me please]

Yeah I know I'm a pedant.

[BONES]

Wavetables are just a convenient way to add more sonic variety at the oscillator level.

More convenient than PWM, a bit of cross-mod between oscillators or even just the simple interaction of two slightly detuned oscillators? Not in my experience. If anything, the value I see in wavetables is in distorting them with things like the Phase Mod and Wavefolding options you get in Pigments. But even that isn't much different to FM and trawling through a folder full of wavetables to find the one that works tends to be mind-numbing, don't you think?

Try making all these sounds with a basic subtractive synth and a bit of cross-mod

I hear nothing in any of those that I wouldn't assume was done with a simple, subtractive synth, except for the obviously sampled bits, of course. The second one sounds like X Marks the Pedwalk.

As recursive one wrote, it's about sonic variety, but, it's also about an easy way to add movement to the sound, when you modulate the wavetable position.

My question had nothing to do with what you can do with them, beyond any scenario where you would think that you needed a wavetable synth, that it wasn't just one of several options but the only option. To me they are just a different way of doing the same kinds of things.

[recursive one]

Try making all these sounds with a basic subtractive synth and a bit of cross-mod

I hear nothing in any of those that I wouldn't assume was done with a simple, subtractive synth, except for the obviously sampled bits, of course.

I actually know how to make some of these sounds and it's more complicated than you seem to think.

The metallic leads in the first one sound like they might have been made with FM and sync at the same time (like you can do in Virus which I think is what was actually used here), but you can do similar stuff in Serum by FMing between right wavetables.

The second track sounds to me like the wavetable oscillators of Virus TI were used a lot in there - i may be wrong of course cause I can't pretend I know all WT synths which existed in 2007, but I'm pretty sure it's not all basic subtractive sounds (some are, but not all of them).

The third one most likely was made with heavy use of Serum.

Morphing sounds with some "metallic" or "digital" edge is what I mostly use wavetable synths for, there might be other ways to get similar sound character but I find the WT synths like Serum and Hive are the fastest way to get the sounds I'm after.

Also, osc cross-modulation should run at audio rate to sound good which may require quite a some CPU. When it's already embedded into a wavetable it's not an issue.

Anyway, if you don't need wavetable synths for your own music nobody forces you to use them.

The second one sounds like X Marks the Pedwalk.

Never heard of them but I googled them up and Wikipeida says they were using Waldorf Microwave.

[Ploki]

I don't need new synths, but maybe i want them.

Tell me why i don't need Spire if i have everything from u-he

[chk071]

I could only tell you why you need Spire.

[digitalboytn]

Wavetables are just a convenient way to add more sonic variety at the oscillator level.

[chk071]

Wavetables are just a convenient way to add more sonic variety at the oscillator level.

More convenient than PWM, a bit of cross-mod between oscillators or even just the simple interaction of two slightly detuned oscillators? Not in my experience.

Do you think you can create any sound you can create with different wavetables with PWM and cross modulation?

It's a rhetorical question. Of course you can't.

[Ploki]

I could only tell you why you need Spire.

Hit me. Been eyeing it for a while


Edit: oh m1 compatible already. That’s a big big +

[chk071]

It's one of the best sounding VA synths for me. It has a lot of the vibe I sense when I listen to demos from the Virus or JP-8000 synths. It has some nicely punchy envelopes, good filters (although not perfect... their character is very nice, but, the resonant behavior isn't up to par to some of the premium analog emulations). The effects are first class (I don't know any other synth whose effects sound as good). Overall, it's a really nice package, because the features are very good as well.

On the downside, the whole architecture appears a bit thrown together, which is probably testament to the developers packing a lot of stuff in there bit by bit. Also, some things are really badly implemented, the filter drive for example. I don't even use it, even though I would if it was implemented like in Sylenth1. It's horrible. I don't know what the devs were thinking there. Also, it could really, really use wavetable oscillators. That's my biggest feature wish for the future.

Apart from those niggles, I'd still wholeheartedly recommend it though. It sounds superb. Has a very "future", spacey, modern sound which I really like.

[Ploki]

Thanks! That and M1 prompted me to go for another demo ride it seems like its on sale right now so good timing

[chk071]

[recursive one]

I'm finding Spire and Hive2 are making very good match sonically.

Spire sounds bright, clean and very hi-fi, Hive covers somewhat similar territory but sounds darker and grittier. They play well together in a mix.

Also they complement each other in features (Hive has wavetables, Spire has FM and various interesting oscilator modes like sync and vowel).

Other U-he synths aren't really comparable to Spire IMO as they are very different sonically and conceptually.

[chk071]

I will give Hive another try when they implemented the new filters (which Urs announced). Not really a big fan of the current filters and the overall sound. Maybe that'll change with the new version. Don't think I'd buy it full price anyway though, so... if they don't do another NI sale it probably won't happen.