Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[zerocrossing]

C'mon, I put it out there for you.

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

Like what? The first two demos sound completely generic to me, things I could easily do with Uno or any VSTi. The third one sounds like it's being played through a busted speaker. Again, hardly a stretch for even a basic VSTi. The fourth one also sounds like there is something wrong in the signal path in places - a weird, horrible distortion - and the rest, again, sounds anodyne, like it could be anything. The 303 filter one has a couple of nice sounds, though, but still nothing mind-blowingly amazing. The last one is a return to ordinariness. Not what I was expecting at all.

The easy answer,risk-free.Thanks for your honestly,again.

I’ve never read a post from him that actually provided information or even an interesting opinion. BONES in a nutshell is: “What I’m doing is the best and everything else sucks.” HIs praise of his crap Synthedit plugins was enough for me to know that he wasn’t a useful contributor to the discourse on KVR.

[zerocrossing]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that [...]

That's what I'm talking about. If you want _exactly_ that sound, I'm not taking you seriously. You _want_ to use the hardware and that's perfectly fine and you don't need to justify yourself. Just don't try to find a rational argument for doing so.

So:
"I like using hardware"' - cool, more power to you!
"You can't get that exact sound with software!" - why the f&%"§$ would that nuances matter when making music and not trying to prove some totally irrelevant point for the sake of argumentation instead of standing proud of your personal feelings?

Your argument is moot because there is no rational argument to use any musical instrument. That’s the beauty of music. It defies all rationality. The answer to obtaining any musical instrument, be it acoustic, hardware analog, or software, is that, “I want it to make music.”

I love Indian classical music. I love the sound of the instruments. I have several sample libraries of Indian instruments and I use them quite a bit. However, I’m very aware that they’re not the real deal. I’m making a compromise because I don’t have the space, money, or time to learn a bunch of Indian instruments. I’m cool with being mediocre on the two instruments I play. I’m sure someone who actually played Indian classical music would hear my music and instantly know that I wasn’t using an actual sitar, for example, but most from Europe or the Americas would have no idea. I’d never argue with the sitar player, as that would be silly. I know that even though I love the sound of those instruments, they aren’t the primary focus of my music.

It’s the same here. If you want the sound of an analog synth, but don’t have the space or money for one, a plugin will give you a decent taste of that kind of flavor, but so will a sample library. Even better, it most likely will give you some extra things that the analog synth can’t give you because of the underlying technology. That’s why I use them despite having a crop of hardware analogs at my disposal. I’d love to get rid of them, but every time I’ve sat down and done extensive side-by-side comparisons, I always end up finding that the software falls short in some ways.

[anomandaris1]

Just terrible comparison, there is an enormous gap between real acoustic instrument and sampled version, because of the actual physical controls over the sound generation.
The actual sound difference between VA and real analogue machines is like non-existent in practice considering no 2 real analogue synth sound the same. People love to talk about the unique timbres they get from analogue, but when asked to post such a sound they can't come with anything "unique".
I feel like so many people on this forum are stuck in the 80s... don't you guys produce any modern genres commercially? There is little to no use for any of the limited vintage crap in modern music, but I would have loved something like a workstation/arranger with FM and/or wavetable capabilities (complementing or replacing my laptop) for performing live shows currently relevant music.

[ReleaseCandidate]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that [...]

That's what I'm talking about. If you want _exactly_ that sound, I'm not taking you seriously. You _want_ to use the hardware and that's perfectly fine and you don't need to justify yourself. Just don't try to find a rational argument for doing so.

So:
"I like using hardware"' - cool, more power to you!
"You can't get that exact sound with software!" - why the f&%"§$ would that nuances matter when making music and not trying to prove some totally irrelevant point for the sake of argumentation instead of standing proud of your personal feelings?

Your argument is moot because there is no rational argument to use any musical instrument. That’s the beauty of music.

Exactly my point. But why the f$%!§ do you try to come up with rational arguments then? You're the one who did post the "you can't get this sounds with software, try to prove me wrong!!111!!!" examples, right? The only result is that you look inmature and insecure, with the need to justify your opinions and feelings (no, you can keep your hardware even it if sound's the same as software, you maybe need to argue about that with your wife/partner/whoever, but not on the internet).
That's actually something you could learn from Bones.

[e-crooner]

When I hear audios of hardware like that $5k synth or even the cheap Alpha Juno, I often feel like their filters are "tight". By that I mean that softsynths often sound as if their filters were leaking higher frequencies, which gives the typical LP curve a blurry line so to speak, resulting in a less edgy, defined sound.

[BBFG#]

In some ways this thread reminds me of the spouse or date that asks, "do you really need all these guitars?"

I agree in many ways to what zerocrossing said. Thinking I didn't need something and then realising it filled a place that nothing else did. But it's often about the instrument as a whole and not just a patch/program from it. And for me (even though I'm in that weird in-between of too good for some and never good enough for others) it is about the relationship I get with that instrument.
The one thing that's the same between them for me is how much they keep me playing and giving me inspiration.
Just like the guitarist that gets something different from each of their many strats. It's not just subjective, but intangible. The bottom line is the same answer the guitarist will give to that spouse or date. "You just don't get it."

[cryophonik]

But it's often about the instrument as a whole and not just a patch/program from it.
.
.
It's not just subjective, but intangible.

Nailed it.

[vurt]

i like the smell of cabling

[Bulbizarre]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that deeply saturated organic lows and HQ shimmery highs, and creamy mids that merge with lows and highs as one block, with no weird resonance that need endless dynamic EQ, even Repro doesn't completely gets there. I was listening to Moog One demos the other day, I will not buy one because the price is crazy, but still, I can't get that pad sound from Diva in divine mode, there's no context, and no processing can fill the gap. I like how the guy from Sonicstate put it in words, he says it sounds like there are effects on, but there are actually none. It's just the raw sound of the analog circuit. I also get that impression from my OB-6. There is a gap between high quality and musical design of interwinded components of an analog circuit and our current consumer computer capabilities.

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't. The thing is, I liked the sound and playability of RePro better. I didn't love the sound of the Moog One. I didn't like its gain staging and the filters are too tame for my taste. I spent nearly a month digging into it and then returned the Moog One.

I immediately loved the sound of the Moog Matriarch and it's a keeper for me. Analog still has sonic characteristics that digital hasn't fully emulated. But that doesn't mean I like all analog synths or that some VST's don't satisfy me more.

I have a Black Corporation Xerxes... gorgeous sounding analog synth. There is a lovely aliveness to it. I also have the Voltage Research Laboratory by Pittsburg Modular. Awesome and unique analog modular synth.

I hear characteristics on both of those that are hard or not possible to replicate in software. But then there are characteristics in various software synths that no analog can replicate. Be careful about fetishizing analog.

I currently have 8 different analog synths (2-3 on the way out) and I would give all 8 of them up before I would give up Bazille... Bazille is my favorite synth, hardware or software. It just does it for me.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.
True that there is an important personal factor, playability I don't know, but I definetely prefer the sound of the Moogs ladder filter to repro's, to each his own.
I will give Bazille another go, it's the only u-he synth I don't have, I thought it was unnecessarily complex and just somewhat skipped it and defaulted to my other stuff.

[AnX]

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't.

you didn't know before?

sounds like an expensive lesson....

[recursive one]

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't.

you didn't know before?

sounds like an expensive lesson....

[e-crooner]

ATC-X. It’s an analog monosynth with Model D osc clones (2) and a quartet of classic analog filter clones (Model D, SEM, 303 and ARP) You’d think that Diva could cover it, but you’d be wrong, and Diva sounds puny and dull when trying to do the cross mod and filter FM things the ATC-X does, plus the gent’s at Studio Electronics were nice enough to throw in a third EG, which I’ve been begging Urs to add on for years. Super useful.

You've mentioned that synth a few times. I am very curious. Could you post a few examples of the sound you are talking about? I am curious how well I might match it in Diva or similar. I keep hearing things like this but yes, nobody posts anything to actually back up what they are saying. Not saying I don't believe you, or that you are wrong, I am just selfish and want to see for myself

Easy enough to find..

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

The first audio sounds ok, the other ones I can't bear listening to.
If we knew which patch you mean and how it was created, we could try to emulate it in softsynths. But who has the time to try and guess all that?

[pdxindy]

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't.

you didn't know before?

sounds like an expensive lesson....

I returned it and got my money back... so no, it wasn't

[zerocrossing]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that deeply saturated organic lows and HQ shimmery highs, and creamy mids that merge with lows and highs as one block, with no weird resonance that need endless dynamic EQ, even Repro doesn't completely gets there. I was listening to Moog One demos the other day, I will not buy one because the price is crazy, but still, I can't get that pad sound from Diva in divine mode, there's no context, and no processing can fill the gap. I like how the guy from Sonicstate put it in words, he says it sounds like there are effects on, but there are actually none. It's just the raw sound of the analog circuit. I also get that impression from my OB-6. There is a gap between high quality and musical design of interwinded components of an analog circuit and our current consumer computer capabilities.

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't. The thing is, I liked the sound and playability of RePro better. I didn't love the sound of the Moog One. I didn't like its gain staging and the filters are too tame for my taste. I spent nearly a month digging into it and then returned the Moog One.

I immediately loved the sound of the Moog Matriarch and it's a keeper for me. Analog still has sonic characteristics that digital hasn't fully emulated. But that doesn't mean I like all analog synths or that some VST's don't satisfy me more.

I have a Black Corporation Xerxes... gorgeous sounding analog synth. There is a lovely aliveness to it. I also have the Voltage Research Laboratory by Pittsburg Modular. Awesome and unique analog modular synth.

I hear characteristics on both of those that are hard or not possible to replicate in software. But then there are characteristics in various software synths that no analog can replicate. Be careful about fetishizing analog.

I currently have 8 different analog synths (2-3 on the way out) and I would give all 8 of them up before I would give up Bazille... Bazille is my favorite synth, hardware or software. It just does it for me.

This is really the way to approach things for me as well. Choose the tool for its sonics and features. I’d be lying if I said that price didn’t play a part in things ($8,000 is more than I’m willing to spend on a single instrument) and I’m well aware that I often get as much enjoyment and use out of a $70 plugin as I do a $1700 instrument. If I were broke, or lost the space for a full hybrid studio setup, I’d be able to easily move to an all software setup. I’d lose something, but not really something that I need but something that I do want.

One could go a similar route and say that all you need is freeware and to pay for a software instrument is irrational. There’s a lot of great software instruments, no doubt. You must be an idiot to pay for something... but maybe that commercial plugin has a feature or sound that inspires you more than any freeware plugin. So you pay money to get what you want. It is the way.

[Grizzellda]

Well, the Korg Wavestate is hardware, modern level, and it looks really nice!